Traditionialst vs Inline ?

[Bill]

If you read the law on legal guns for the state of Nebraska it states a caliber and that it must load from the muzzle. Inlines do just that.
Now as far as Bounce stating that Cabela's is at falt. Wrong, its all all retail companys that did this so don't single out just one company to blame for it. Matter of fact if you want to blame someone blame the companys that are making the guns. Take a look at what happened and you will quickly see it was self preservation that caused the boom in inlines. If you want to sell people what they want you have to sorce it no matter what your personal thoughts are on the matter. Its profit and loss and survival. Almost every major gun company has built an inline from Winchester, Remington, Savage, and many more. CVA and Thompson Center who were also major Traditional style rifle builders were some of them that helped start the inline trend. Also if you do a bit of research, inline rifles were being built long before the end of the so called traditional rifle disapeared in the 1800's.
What really kills me is I have shot almost every major brand of inline in existance and have yet to find one that can shoot with my traditional ML. Do I feel threatened by them??? NO. Their just another form of ML. Its just that the beatiful lines of the traditional ML's aren't there. Any more their Stainless steel and plastic. Seems that some people just can't remember to clean their guns. I kind of giggle every time I find another ML that some poor inline shooter forgot to put some anti seize on their breach plug and ended up welding the plug into the barrel. Or thought that Stainless Steel won't rust and didn't clean their gun and left the gun dirty and ended up with a very pitted bore.
My latest giggle is the fact that Pellets don't ignite easy even with the 209 primers and the primer ends up blowing the pellet down the barrel for a ways before it ignites and you end up with a air space between the pellet and the breach. Makes for a bad deal in the right circumstances. So now we have special 209 primers that are actuall colder so that this don't happen. And if you still want to wring out the very best in accuracy in your ML then you still need to use a loose powder and its still very very hard to beat Black powder.
The very worst that has occured from the inlines is that we now have more people out there hunting durring ML season than we originally did and that isn't all bad. Every year we get a few new traditional shooters from this new group.

[bounce]

Your right bill Cabela's Were not the only one Just the bigest in this state. This now was allso seveal years ago now and most of your speach has ben writen sence the fact. It has allready ben several years now that I was to Kearney and at a seminar at the state muzzel loaders Were the DNR was trying to bull-S**T there way to the mebers as why they did not hold up their end of the bargan. Basicly was it was too big a task todo and Din't matter. I said Why don't you just say you sold out to the retail stores. He said what do you mean by that? Isaid Why don't you stop at Cabela's when you leave hear and you will know exactly what I mean. Nothing more between us excanged their. Later that afternoon we stoped at cabela's on are way home and hear is this DNR guy comeing out of the building with about 25 other peaple ahead of him & among him & behind Him carrying inlines on sale out of cabele's He was wallking twards me and when we meet He said Now I understand!! And you are right!! I understand it all now for the first time my self.

[jabba]

OK... So if Bill is right... and the law only says it must load from the muzzle... then you got over run by law abiding people. The law was written poorly.

If the law somehow prohibits the inline guns, and people use them anyway, then I am on your side. If they wanted to change it... then they should have changed it.

That's sort of the problem with being in a fringe, minority group. You can get out legislated by the masses. That sucks... but it's how a democracy or representitive republic works.

Jabba

[bounce]

LOL Yes I'm Shure The Law did say you must load from the muzzel...smiles... and if thats all it said it would have ben the shortist and most amasing law in history i would think. No I do not have a copy of it anymore and bye now they may have amended it for bill LOL Look guys we lost & we know it but we allso know how & why!! And no we din't like it and we do remember it kinda like the south from after the civil war till today!!

[jabba]

In my opinion... the South was right. Except for the slavery thing... but that wasn't what it was REALLY about.

Just like it's not what THIS is really about.

Ya'll wanted a season where you could hunt, and not see other hunters. A time for yourself. You had it, and then you got screwed. That's really the bottom line ain't it?

Jabba

[deputydon]

Yes in a nut shell we had a PRIMATIVE ML'ing season that got turned into a ANYTHING GOES ML'ing season.

[Jack]

I been reading this thread, like everyone else........
Seems to be lots of blaming companies for bringing out and promoting in lines.
Are people forced to buy in lines in some places?
They aren't- they buy in lines because they choose to.
Seems to me, if you wanna blame someone for in lines, maybe who you gotta blame is the guy that wants to go deer hunting, and votes with his wallet (he buys an in line).
If people wouldn't pay for in lines ( and often pay a premium for them) in lines wouldn't be popular.

[Bill]

Bounce, you were there the same as I was. The law never did say it had to be a Traditional style rifle. It said at that time it must be .40 cal or larger (since then amended to say .45) and must load from the muzzle.
Oh there were some other things in there too but nothing more on describing what kind of gun they had to use.
(OH and in 84 when this all came about Cabela's was only two stores in the USA and neither one of them big enough to control anything let alone the inlines. Now BASS PRO and Gander Mountain on the other hand ROFLMAO heck lets blame them OK, got to blame someone Don't We?)
Now just so you other's know it because D-D and Bounce and Donnie already know it, I feel about the same way as they do about traditional guns. Differance is I'm not going to dwell on it and am trying to look at things in reality and except the change as I know their isn't much I can do about any of it. The whole thing is like the guys that use to use lever action guns. Then the new fangled bolt action guns came along and ruined it for everyone.

[bounce]

Bill is as allways..... Allways right!!! hee hehe How you say that bill? ROFLMAO

[bounce]

Jack You may have read it all and I'm sorry but you still missed the isue and the point! all I can say is try again!!

[Bill]

Well lets see, so far we have blamed the Retail stores, the manufacturers, the DNR's, and ME (and I shoot a traditional rifle and don't own an inline) ROFLMAO and now Jack has missed the point.
I don't think he missed the point at all Bounce. If people didn't buy the inlnes the companys selling them wouldn't of been selling them.
Besides, as of yet, those newfangledmagnumwhizbangers still don't do it any better than my rifle does. Nor any further.
This whole arguement is just that. An arguement. Does no good. Won't change things. And is non productive.
For my part I plan on doing the same thing I have done for the last 20 years and keep on shooting my smokepole and killing a deer every year and grinning behind my hand about the guys out there that have to shoot all those new fangled guns and have to spend a crapload of money to do it with their guns while I do it with mine for not much more than the cost of a can of primers and powder.

[deputydon]

[klsm54]

Bring on the crossbows... ;D....Just a fancy compound. If you prefer longbows, so be it, nobody says you can't use one.

Same as the in-lines, if that is your bag, use-em. If you want to use a Brown Bess, then use that. Adding a new type of firearm shouldn't be a problem, as long as you don't exclude a firearm that used to be legal, costing hunters money for a new rifle, or excluding them from a season they once enjoyed.

It may be different in other states, but here in Pennsylvania, there is no danger of the woods being overcrowded during either the early in-line muzzle loader season, nor the late flintlock season.

I am, and always will be a proponent of 'live and let live". I certainly have no problems with someone using a scoped in-line during the same season that I choose to use a flintlock. I chose to use my fathers open-sighted 32 Special while others populated the same hunting areas with 50 mm variable scoped Earschplitzenloudenboomersuperultrashortmagnums......

Hunting is becoming less and less popular every year, I can't see limiting it to suit one groups whims or desires.

Now, as far as the lack of enforcement of laws, that IS a problem. If you tried to use an in-line in PA during the flintlock season, you're gonna get busted, as it should be.

It is my opinion that we, as hunters, should support all types of LEGAL, hunting. As I've said before, the anti's give our sport enough grief without fighting and bickering among our own ranks.

As far as the record books go, I really haven't put much thought into it. Probably because I am, and always have been a long way from a trophy hunter. Heck, I'm probably most happy when I take a really big long eared doe than any old buck. But it probably isn't fair to include game killed with scoped in-lines in the same category as game taken with primitive arms. But where do you draw the line? Is it fair to include game taken with cap and ball with that taken with a flintlock? How about archery? Pope & Young has some rule about the percent of let-off on your compound bow. Is it really that much easier to take a trophy class deer with a 75% let-off bow than a 65% let-off? And are either of them fair to compare with a long-bow shooter?

The debate is endless, for sure, even more reason why I feel that there should be no debate, make 'em all legal. And of course, all hunters do owe a debt of gratitude to those who fought and lobbied to get any sort of muzzle loader, or archery season in the first place... ;D

I'm not trying to hurt any feelings or step on anyone's toes here, I would simply like to see more harmony among both groups of hunters, a mutual respect of sorts. It is impossible to think that, unless you own your own hunting ground, you are going to hunt in blissful peace, never being annoyed by thoughtless and bumbling hunters, no matter what weapon they carry. As many know, I am not a big proponent of magnum firearms, but I don't let it bother me when I see someone carrying a 300 Ultra Mag with a 6.5-20X50mm scope on it in the swamp where I hunt.

[Bubba]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news AGAIN but you can use a X-bow during ANY season here in Delaware (with a permit).... if you don't have a permit, you can only use it during the shotgun seasons....

[Bill]

......... ........... ........... ;D
We need a thumbs up Bubba. Good one.