Traditionialst vs Inline ?

[jabba]

I don't know that my inline gives me much advantage. I think it resists the wet a little better maybe... and it is easier to disassemble and clean. Other than that... it is the same ol same ol IMO. I bought mine for $300. I just picked up a replacement... (For one that I didn't clean that rotted over the summer...) ((That a friend scrubbed, and bore pasted and got shooting again to replace his that he lost in the river hunting canoe tip over accident)) for $180 on line.

Jabba

[bounce]

Ok some points for you all, Bill You are quoteing The Law as to rifle used before the primitive law was put in. I that it left out dubble barels, smoth bores, Muskets. All rifles were to be Flint or cap of the fur trade ear be for the civil war, It also left out modern inline styled rifles. 2nd point is The state UNML lobbyed for several years to get this seasion. 3 point they were sucsesfull in doing so. 3rd point is The big Box stores and the puplic did not respect this law or the hunters that wanted to do it in primitive style, Yes they have the right to buy & sell any gun they want!! But if they chouse to hunt the new primitive muzzel loading seasion they were expected to hunt it with the specifiyed weapons. Point 4 is most din't. Point 5 is the DNR would not try to inforce the new law. Point 5 is the next year ton's of inlines found new owners in Nebraska and all bought Primitive hunting permit's, DNR was thrilled about that, and everything regarding the new primitive muzzel loading law has ben totaly enored by them officaly ever cence. Thats the way it came and thats the way it went!! No inforcement!! Now you can hunt it with a 25-06 if you tape a ramrod under your barrel

[Bill]

Hmmmm I read the laws on the NE ML season of that time period when they were finalized and sent out to all Law Enforcemet Agencys durring that time and I do not remember them stating anywhere that they had to be 1.) All rifles were to be Flint or cap of the fur trade eara befor the civil war as you state. What it stated was that it must be of a flintlock or percussion rifle shooting a projectile of .40 cal or larger. It didn't even state that it had to be rifled. You could use either a smoothbore or rifle. Neither did it state that it could only have one barrel. I remember when that law was finally formalized and sent out to all law enforcement agencys that I thought that this should of been put into the law someplace like it had been agreed upon durring the final part of the design of the ML season lobbying. Blame your state law makers for that one Bounce.
2.)The state ML'ers lobbyed for several years to get this season. Yes your totally right on this one and the State of Nebraska fought them pretty hard on it. Didn't figure that someone with a old junker rifle needed the right to hunt deer seperatly from the other people but then the biggest argument for our side was the fact that they were already doing this with the archery people. I remember that we at that time argued that ML season needed to be early before the rifle season and lost that arguement (even though most other states agreed and went with it) which would of been nice as then when I neck shoot a deer with my .58 I wouldn't be knocking its horns off from the impact and the fact that their getting ready to loose their antlers anyway. The Archery people lobbied long and hard to keep us from interfering with their season and making it the last season.
3.) It wasn't the big box stores Bounce. I can remember seeing adds in Muzzleloader and some of the other blackpowder rags about the fantastic inlines before I seen them in any stores. When your own people (Traditional ML Mags) begin to do this then you should see the writting on the walls. Any decent retail store worth its salt have people that do nothing but keep up on what is the latest and bestest and newest thingamajig out there and see that it gets on the shelves as fast as possible. Gets down to HE that gets it first gets the most. And any retail store that sells to all states carrys items that maybe might be illigal in some states but not in others but do this so that they cover all states. If someone from a state that says that this gun is illigal for hunting with buys a gun thats illigal to hunt with and does so anyway, blame the enforcement and the person who used it.
That also covers point 5 and your totally right with that one. But I dont think you will be finding many hunting with cartridge guns with a ramrod tapped to the bottom as what I have found is that even though a lot of guys out there shoot inlines they do still follow the rules of the law for the most part.
Just something to add which is a small story. I know of an ex lawenforcement officer that bought a traditional style rifle to hunt with durring the ML season. He drove around until he seen a buck within range of the road and commenced to shoot at the deer. He missed it 3 times and finally the deer getting tired of him bothering his dinner decided to leave or the idiot would of still been there shooting I suspect. The guy then having tired of missing went home and got his cartridge rifle and went back out and found another deer and shot it with his Centerfire rifle. Then he took it and paraded it around and told everyone that he had shot it with his ML. Further he did this more than once. He related this to me on one of his drinking benges he went on every now and then. Now the big question is this. Who would you rather have out there. Someone shooting an inline who really has no more chance than you do of killing a deer or someone that sneaks out with his centerfire rifle and shoots a deer so he can brag that he killed one with his ML. By the way, you and D-D both know this person. Me, thats the person that I hate, not the guy that is just using a more modern version of the same gun I am shooting.

[bounce]

Bill I still feel The law rules your talking about is how it was stated when we had to hunt in the reg. rifle seasion and I'm pretty darn shure of it. Now I understand you defending your paycheck!! yes I do!! But I will go back to the civil war and put it how it is and was. That war started because the south did not get proper respect from the North and in truth the Yankees [My ansesters too] did not respect the south, In turn UNNML were not respected by the DNR or other sportsman or box stores [chuckle] So in the battle a Yankee asked a reb why he keept fighting them & the reb replyed because your hear!! Same with primitive shooters why do we complain when modern shooters are hunting in their seasion? because they are their!! at no time did the south or us perimitive hunters get the respect we felt deserved. But in the end we both lost and both knew it but neither of us ever forgot the trampling nor the lack of respect from the victors to this day!! Now it maybe the worst reasion anyone went to war But the pimitive shooters did not go to war, they like the south just will not forget!! Because they [inliners] are their, still their, in our hunting seasion. By the way the yankees are still in the south also and not all that well liked for it allso.

[deputydon]

I hate to take sides Bill; but I too saw the ORGINAL before it passed and smoothbores and double rifles weren't allowed( And it was worded to mean
tradistional rifles). I think part of the problem
was we started our season almost / if not before Mr. Knight came along. I think the "K-85" came out in 1985 (didn't it ?) So while being busy lobbying for a season no-one dreamed that a "new"
type of gun would be allowed to be called a "muzzleloader"

[bounce]

Certanly not a Tradistional muzzleloader, in fairness to the Knight K-85 I do not think their rifles at first caused the imedeant problem as it was around $400.00 at the time it was the $69.00 to $135.00 box store guns that did the trick to our seasion. Cheap guns one could grab and told he could extend his deer seasion with it for 4 weeks , and out the box store it went. now that is the kind of sales person I do expect at a box store, do and did they know the true law? but most likely they did. ethical not to me, but for a man buying a house and geting his paycheck from one I supose he feels he is!! and two stores in nebraska was able to go national on the back of primitive muzzeloaders being their chumps, am I being ethical perhapps not but paybacks are sometimes much equal in ethics.....ROTTEN!!

[jabba]

How would ya'll have felt IF Cabelas instead... sold 10,000,000 cheap arse CVA traditional side hammer guns, and your season still go flooded by guys wanting to hunt, and not into the traditional type guns, but they HAD to be to be allowed to hunt a little more?

Jabba

[deputydon]

I could and can live w/ that. If a person wants to bow hunt he/she starts by buying a bow, not a crossbow,or a in-line, or a rifle, or a shotgun, or a spear. BUT A BOW

[deputydon]

bill said:

Just something to add which is a small story. I know of an ex lawenforcement officer that bought a traditional style rifle to hunt with durring the ML season. He drove around until he seen a buck within range of the road and commenced to shoot at the deer. He missed it 3 times and finally the deer getting tired of him bothering his dinner decided to leave or the idiot would of still been there shooting I suspect. The guy then having tired of missing went home and got his cartridge rifle and went back out and found another deer and shot it with his Centerfire rifle. Then he took it and paraded it around and told everyone that he had shot it with his ML. Further he did this more than once. He related this to me on one of his drinking benges he went on every now and then. Now the big question is this. Who would you rather have out there. Someone shooting an inline who really has no more chance than you do of killing a deer or someone that sneaks out with his centerfire rifle and shoots a deer so he can brag that he killed one with his ML. By the way, you and D-D both know this person. Me, thats the person that I hate, not the guy that is just using a more modern version of the same gun I am shooting.

Bill;
Would that be Barta___ ? Or Barto____? I have long suspected both.. BTW Neither one is a tradishonalist which further proves my point; how many others do the same....

[bounce]

Mule ear side hammers are as traditional american as applepie jabba, we would have welcomed those pached round ball shooters with open arms, same with under hammers. are law did state no cronicals only patched round balls. most the cheap box store guns allso were rifled for conical bullets allso and not legal in that way allso. We were not trying to eliminate peaple just wanted them to use a traditional sporting rifle.

[Bill]

Its the Barto____ one that really pissed me most of the time and used the centerfire.
Now you guys hit on something that I am with you totally on and thats the use of conicals. That I totally disgree with. If they had stayed with roundball guns a lot of the really hardcore anti inliner guys wouldn't be bitching near as much I don't think.
I wonder what kind of performance I could wring from an inline using blackpowder and patched RB in say a .62 cal and a 1-72 twist. Now that could be a fun gun to shoot or play with.
I do have one other bitch about inline guns and thats the use of synthetic stocks.
But alas, the door is open and the heard is gone and its too late to do anything about it except to except the loss and move on.
I think that what you both are talking about Bounce and D-D was the first initial rules that the DNR sent out or posted and at that time they did state that it had to be a primitive type weapon. But by the time everything was all done and lawenforcement got their rules none of that was stated in the law at all. Also a big point of contention at that time but everyone was so glad that they finally got a ML season that no one paid a lot of attention to the real facts and what had been done to them.

[Purebred Redneck]

I don't know what the hell to say regarding the thread...except I am completly lost

I will say Jabba hit the nail on the head when he assumed we hate inlines because it disrupted our peace and quiet (the reason the season existed in the first place...I shouldn't say that...but it's one of them)

I will interject Jabba's opinion that an inline is not a big advantage.
Bill and some others may be able to shoot a traditional rifle well. There are some that shoot inlines exceptionally well too. But for the other 75% of us, we shoot so-so at best.
Therefor, I will say this for the voice of the magority of shooters:
1. most are going to get better groups with a scope vs iron sights. (and yes you can put a scope on a sidelock but why the hell do that?)

2. In general, sabots are going to outshoot conicals at 100 yards. Roundballs - I'll agree with one of you traditional guys - they can shoot very well at 100 yards. But IMHO they don't have the power for deer at that distance - keeping in mind the accuracy goes to hell past 80-90 grains of powder (but I hate the 243 so what the hell do I know lol ;D)
Point is - inlines are made with a bullet twist
Most traditional rifles don't go beyond 1:48 (a ball or conical twist).

3. Yes, inlines are more water resistant

4. Inlines and caplocks cost the same money. Each start at about 100. Most people spent about 175-200. And there are the people that go beyond that.


Now for Jack lol
I see your point and do agree.
People are going to take the easiest laziest approach to everything.

[deputydon]

admin said:

I don't know what the hell to say regarding the thread...except I am completly lost
2. In general, sabots are going to outshoot conicals at 100 yards. Roundballs - I'll agree with one of you traditional guys - they can shoot very well at 100 yards. But IMHO they don't have the power for deer at that distance - keeping in mind the accuracy goes to hell past 80-90 grains of powder

Now I'm confused Red what do ya mean accuracy goes to hell past 80-90 grains of powder ? And that a roundball isn't good past 100 yards

[bounce]

Red bought the cheap traditional round ball gun at the box store D*D

[jabba]

Right... one of those CVA Things...

When my barrel rotted... I talked to one of you about building me a barrel. If you remember I thought about having you copy my regular inline barrel but making it a 1:64 twist so I could shoot round balls thru my inline.

Boy would THAT screw them up huh?

I still think ya'll would be mad if there were just as many guys but they were shooting cheap, knock off side hammer roundball guns. I can't PROVE it but I suspect it's true.

Anyway... no hard feelings fellas. I do have an old KIT .45 flinter my brother built years ago I might ty to make shoot. Just for fun... That's how it all starts ain't it?

Jabba