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Post by twomoons on Dec 16, 2011 12:15:58 GMT -5
I HAD a Howa 223 that i was setting up for varmit hunting and a customer HAD to have it so I sold the outfit and... I saw an ad for a REMINGTON 700 SPS V at what i thoght was a real reasonable price so I said, "Hey lets UPGRADE".
Wrong
The Remington came in with a 26" barrel HV weight and looked nice, but compared to the Hoowa the action was rough and the trigger the NEW remington adjustable was set for 6 pounds out of the box and the stock, the stock was cheap plastic with no bedding blocks and with a bipod the stock bends in and rests on the barrel, when you pick it up the stock bends away from the barrel. So I tuned the trigger to 2 pounds and took off the cheap scope the rifle came with and put on a good scope and now I will have to replace the stock. I should have stayed with the Howa.
Not the kicker iis the LIST price for the Howa is $459 and the price for the Remington is $699 and quite frankly you get less for your money. I am sure disappointed in what has happened to the Remington conglomerate guns.
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Post by jmarriott on Dec 16, 2011 16:44:44 GMT -5
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Post by twomoons on Dec 16, 2011 22:25:50 GMT -5
Yeah a real dog! Cava Canem!
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Post by Bill on Dec 17, 2011 7:10:57 GMT -5
I disagree with you. That model gun is one of the best kept secrets out there. Biggest problem they have is the stock. Loose the stock and put on something like the H.S. Precision or Bell and Carlson aluminum bedding block stocks and they will shoot every bit as good as a Cooper or close to that level.
You can even bed an aluminum rod into the forearm of that Rem stock and then glass bed the action and they will shoot well with that.
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Post by twomoons on Dec 17, 2011 17:57:22 GMT -5
All right I will put on an HS stock at an additional $264.00 Then I will lap the bolt to make it work as smooth as the Howa and I have already tuned the trigger and am really considering putting on a 700 target trigger I have ($250.00) An Oh boy for just about $1000 I have a gun as GOOD as a Howa for 1/2 the money. Now when i sold the Howa I was gettting groups of 1/2" with out doing anything was was working on load developmnet Now if the Remington shoots groups of 3/8 " after I have to work on it it doesn't seem to me to be such a good value.
I looked today and was thinking of the Choate varmit stock (price) or the HS Precision (value) and the more I looked the madder I got because the Howa CAME with the Hogue stock with aluminum bedding blocks and free float barrel. Now as to my putting a rod in the stock, yes I can do all that and if I did it for a customer I would charge 40-50 dollars. My whole thing here is value for value received. The Howa sels RETAIL for $450 and the Remington sells for $650 so you would naturally expect that for your extra $200 you shouldn't have to scrap the factory stock right off the bat. But anymore that seems to be the American, no scratch that the CONGLOMERATE way.
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Post by Bill on Dec 19, 2011 7:34:48 GMT -5
Now the kicker to the story is I can buy both guns new at about the same cost. And I am figuring one being the Rem 700 SPS Varmint and the other being the Wby S2 .223 Varmint Sub MOA.
The stock on both is a POS. Not worth taking home. If I order the Howa with the Hogue stock it might even be a bit higher.
Will they both shoot. Heck ya. One advantage of the Rem is the 26" barrel while the Wby Sub MOA will be 22" I get just a bit more velocity out of the Rem, enough extra to make it worth it to me. Yup. for me it is. Now if I was going to go with Stainless Steel on the Rem the price jumps up another hundred dollors to the List price of $699 but no one pays list and most of the time it can be bought for $599 and the blued model can be bought for $499 if you watch your sales. The blued model of the Howa is costing $519 on clearance price. I haven't seen a Sub MOA in S.S. yet or a price on one but I know its going to run about $100 higher.
I have shot and seen shot both guns and I will take the Remington every time. If it don't shoot its not the gun. If you break it in right and work up a good load it can do anything the Howa can do and do it just a bit faster. And if its a .223 or .308 that means something to me. One of the guys I shoot with has ONE Remington rifle. He hates Remington. He would get rid of this one which is in .308 but he can't. That gun will hit anything he points it at. Don't make much difference what he runs through it. He bought a Bell and Carlson Medalist stock and put on it. This was after he found out how good it shot. He has called me all kinds of names for talking him into this gun because of his dislike for Remington. Why did he buy it. Just to prove me wrong. I told him that the Rem SPS Varmint was the best shooting gun on the rack in .308 for the money, bar none. He has tried to prove me wrong ever since. He has bought 3 other guns since then trying to get one that shot better and so far none of them have. He whines every time he has to shoot the Rem as I told him, unless he can find one that shoots better he has to keep it. He loves Savages. He still owns the Remington.
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Post by twomoons on Dec 19, 2011 11:24:09 GMT -5
Well I have a distributor who is really cheap on the Howa's so my cost is a lot less than the normal cost on the Remington. I have worked the trigger over to a 2 1/2 pound pull and have mounted a scope and I will admit the rifle is a shooter. Even with the POS stock it is well under 1" at the hundred yard mark. I ordered a Boyd's thumbhole varmiter stock in nutmeg for the gun and when it gets here I willl pillar bed it with a free floated tube. Soon I will be ready to test it on called fox and coyote.
It's just sad to me that a jap rifle can even come close to a REMINGTON. I can remember when an out of the box Remington was top of the lineand still beat Winchester prices by a good bit. I remember buying a Remington 788 with scope for $96 tax included and shooting 1" groups with it out of the box. Getting old and cranky I guess.
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Post by twomoons on Dec 19, 2011 13:42:52 GMT -5
Well I give up, you got me. I talked to Dick today about dog huntin and I mentioned that I went from Howa to Remington. He has an SPSV and he loves it, said it was the most accurate out of the box rifle he ever had. By the time he got done extolling the rifle I didn't feel so bad.
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bounce
Royal Member
Posts: 5,727
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Post by bounce on Dec 19, 2011 13:54:48 GMT -5
Hey now you can shoot as well as weiner bill can !! It's all in the gun & not in the hand, or did I just turn that around? lol.
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Post by Bill on Dec 20, 2011 9:25:29 GMT -5
Ya have to remember, I listen to people every day tell me how Remington is a POS anymore. I sell more Remington SPS Varmints than you can imagine just by talking them into trying one. That gun shoots. Especially if it is bedded in another stock. You can take the stock it comes in and glass bed it and it will shoot even better but I have not yet seen one that didn't shoot. The only gun I have ever been embarrassed to sell was the Winchesters that were being made in the last few years before FN shut them down. They should of been embarrassed to even put their name on it. Don't blame FN for shutting them down. I use to bore scope the barrels before selling them and would find guns with no rifling in the barrels for half the barrel or chatter so bad that it looked like a low maintenance road. Ya I seen some spots in some of the Remington barrels where the hammer forging didn't hammer it down properly but never did see one that as bad as the Winchesters. I have seen the Howa's with barrels worse than the Remington's but in the last couple years Weatherby has worked very hard to bring up the quality even though the price point on them is at a lower level. The MOA's do shoot good but most of them I see selling in the $799 price range off the shelf.
Now with all that said. IF you want one that will shoot better than most people can shoot them you need to look at a Savage. One of the Varmint Low Profile mod 12's. Their heavier than the Rem SPS V's but dam those guns shoot. Not much better than the Rem's as they both shoot with the right ammo but I have shot a couple that right out of the box the drive tacks.
Two Moons. Get a set of Lee Colet dies. Get yourself about 2-300 rounds of matching brass. Load it with the recipe off the front of the can of H335 for the 50 grain bullet and use CCI BR primers and fireform them all. Then use the Colet die and neck size them all and load them up. You will be totally amazed at what you can do with the gun. My longest shots to date were shot with that load and one was 636 and the other was 599 and both in about a 25MPH wind coming in from my 4:00 and shooting down a canyon that looked like a sidewinder snake. Haven't found a gun that didn't like that load yet.
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bounce
Royal Member
Posts: 5,727
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Post by bounce on Dec 20, 2011 10:10:57 GMT -5
You can never have a lucky shot ifen you never take it!!
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Post by Bill on Dec 20, 2011 10:29:55 GMT -5
The Idea is to take as much luck out of the equation as possible.  |
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Post by twomoons on Dec 20, 2011 12:58:52 GMT -5
I will let you know when I get it bedded in the new stock. As is it shoots OK but I really haven't had a good opportunity to bench it and wring it out. I will say that it is a seler as I no more than put it on the rack and I have to order another one for a customer.
Luck is the combines effort of dilligance and skill.
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bounce
Royal Member
Posts: 5,727
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Post by bounce on Dec 20, 2011 14:22:19 GMT -5
No one has ever said that when I was lucky??
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Post by Bill on Dec 21, 2011 8:02:48 GMT -5
I don't suppose you broke in the barrel either. Do a little search on barrel break in and follow it. Me, I shoot one clean it, repeat that for 10 shots. Then shoot 2 and clean it. Repeat that 10 times. Then I shoot three and clean. Repeat that for 10 times. Thats 50 rounds. I take a rod and brush and jag with patches with me to the range. I will wet patch it first then I pull the bolt and shove in the tube that keeps the action clean  I only run the patch thru and pull it off and then scrub it with the brass brush good and let it set for a bit before I patch it out. Gives the barrel time to cool down between shots and is basically lapping the barrel at the same time. Watch the throat for carbon build up. Some of the spray foam's work good to stop the carbon build up. I have even done 50 to 100 strokes with a tight patch and JB's but only from the breach end and make sure you clean it good afterwords. Seems they all shoot better afterwords but the really great part is the cleanup. They clean up a lot better too. |
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I only run the patch thru and pull it off and then scrub it with the brass brush good and let it set for a bit before I patch it out. Gives the barrel time to cool down between shots and is basically lapping the barrel at the same time. Watch the throat for carbon build up. Some of the spray foam's work good to stop the carbon build up. I have even done 50 to 100 strokes with a tight patch and JB's but only from the breach end and make sure you clean it good afterwords.