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Post by Bill on Jan 21, 2012 7:56:35 GMT -5
OH my spotter speaks english ;D ;D ;D He just don't have any idea when he gets excited on what to say. UP is the only thing that comes to mind for him. I actually had to laugh about that one. Will love to hear the fix Ernie. I'm going to be pretty busy Sat and Sun as I am finishing my family room and have help coming in and hate to just drop things and leave them by themselves. Not polite when its volunteer help. Besides he is my shooting buddy too. ;D Might be kind of funny though. I am on vacation till Wed so any of those during the day will work. Just make sure if you get a recording you call back a second time so I can make it to the phone. Dang thing only rings 3 times and then goes to recording and I just am not that fast. If you call back right away I will probably be there puffing and huffing from the run upstairs.
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Post by xphunter on Jan 21, 2012 19:33:41 GMT -5
So you are consistently a "Low Shooter?"
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Post by Bill on Jan 22, 2012 9:29:55 GMT -5
You know something. I was going to write off that comment as just a joke but got to thinking. Ya I do do that more often than not. Matt is consistently a High shooter. We both have similar shooting styles except for two things. When he is shooting prone he carries a rear bag and uses it to support his gun in the rear and a Harris bi pod and usually lets his gun free recoil. When I shoot I usually pull the gun back and up above my shoulder a bit and then push forward and bring the gun down to my shoulder loading the bipod with forward pressure against the leg of the bi pod. I have shoot some pretty tiny groups doing this and find the free recoil method puts me all over the place. I'm still searching for a good method for shooting prone with a rifle that recoil is fairly heavy on. Have even thought of using a Muzzle break with the side ports and two or three top ports to help with the Muzzle jump when shooting free recoil. Originally I got the idea of pre loading the bipod from a guy named Froggy that is one awesome shot. He is a F-Class shooter. I have tried to copy his method but haven't achieved the consistency he has but am doing much better than I did with free recoil methods. To give a full description of my shooting method from the prone position I do the following. I get down on both knees directly facing the target. I lay the gun down pointing in a direct line between me and the target slightly forward of the position it will be in when it is up to my shoulder. I then lay straight forward so that my body and the gun are in a direct line with the target with feet spread (and yes with my toes dug in ) I raise the butt of the gun just a bit higher than my shoulder and drag it back to my shoulder. I dig in the legs of the bipod and then lean into it putting forward pressure on the butt and kind of locking the bipod into the dirt. My sniper buddy says that I should have my feet turned out but that really puts some pain in my knee's and hips and makes shooting no fun. I can gain about the same affect by just digging in my toes. ;D I have to come shoot with you some time. Who knows maybe you can help me work out the inconsistency's Of my shooting.
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Post by twomoons on Jan 24, 2012 14:23:05 GMT -5
Feet turned out is the old military way of shooting and is some uncomfortable for older folks. You might try more angle as you prone out and then a slight roll to the right. Here I don't do a lot of prone anymore but I am hell on window rest bench rest.
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Post by Bill on Jan 25, 2012 8:34:26 GMT -5
The ex marine sniper I shoot with when he lays prone his feet are flat to the ground and turned out. I asked him how he does that as I have never been able to get my feet to lay flat like that. His comment was " When your drill Sargent jumps up and down on them you learn how to do that" I tried and tried to get mine to lay at an angle like that and it is painful so I quit it. ;D
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Post by jmarriott on Feb 18, 2012 18:36:12 GMT -5
OK Guys My cousin is trying to spend all of his tax check and wants a varmint rifle. We went to a gun show and to my Local gun store today (well the one close to the show which is known as one of the best in the INDY area) and he was looking at 223 varmint rifles. The show was a bit sparce on selections but had the rem SPS and the savage 12. I told him to work the bolt on the rem and look and mess with the stock per what I have read here. He found out what twomoons was talking about the bolt is real rough and the stock is crap. Thanks twomoons,
Off to the LGS and they had the howa 1500 (I believe) and the savage 12 rem sps and the CZ 527 Varmint. The one he was looking at and coming back to shoulder the most was the CZ 527.
In the rimfire area the CZ's seem to shoot real well out of the box and with someone to do a little trigger work seem to be the best value in bolt rimfire as far as cost verses group size.
I believe the model was the 527 M1 american. Single set trigger I ask the rate of twist and it was 1-12 so it is not for those heavy bullets in 223 they make now. (He buys ammo at wall mart so that should not be a problem)
I owned at one time a cz-75 pisstol and liked it but it went down the road over time.
The MSRP was 700 and the LGS said 649.00 plus tax OTD. I shoot steel with the manager and salesman. To me it seemed to be the best of the 4 we looked at. He went and put it in layaway with 25% down waiting for the tax man to bless his account.
Twomooons/Bill did we get taken in buy turkish walnut and CZ's lower wage costs or is this gun as good as the others or as we thought better than the other. He did not like the way savage shouldered for him. He was stuck on the savage before the show.
I guess in a few weeks we will shoot it and find out.
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Post by Bill on Feb 19, 2012 10:40:41 GMT -5
IF it is the CZ Varmint model I like it a lot. IF it is the CZ 527 that has the light stock and yes pretty its not in the same class. Yes it will shoot well. Yes it is pretty. But a long range PD gun its not. It is what is called a walking varmint rifle. Ment to be carried distances rather than shooting distances. Great little gun though. I have owned a couple very nice Lt Varmint rifles and although a great little gun when it came to long range PD guns they didn't stack up. Now the CZ in the Varmint model with the heavy barrel, H-S stock, set trigger, is one awesome rifle. That one I can smile upon.
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Post by jmarriott on Feb 19, 2012 15:26:17 GMT -5
www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-527-varmint/this is the one he put money down on. I can switch it up to any of the other with a phone call. you are not talking about this one are you? www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-527-vt/they did not have this one in stock and it appears to only be 204 ruger. He wants to skimp on ammo cost so the .223 is his best option. He wanted this on for the pretty one. www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-527-m1-american/I told him to go ahead with the 5 shot varmint. He liked the flush fit 3 shot mag. To me they seemed overall better than the savage, howa and rem in the price range. We don't have a twomoons local to make them work better. I have a good smith but he is just a 1911 guy mainly.
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Post by Bill on Feb 20, 2012 8:50:32 GMT -5
The first or second one will do the job. The third one although pretty is just a bit too lite for my tastes. Most of the guys shooting PD's with them that I know and that like them are sitting in their trucks using the window for a rest and not shooting much more than 150 yds max. When you see someone using either of the first two they usually have it in a case in the back along side a PD bench and will pull into a PD town and sit up the bench and are shooting out to 500+ yds. The seldom move around much, just park and shoot and have a lot of patience and wait for the shot.
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Post by jmarriott on Feb 25, 2012 10:06:29 GMT -5
BILL:
Thank you. He picked it up on wednesday and brought it over thrusday night. I put on a simmons 4-12 scope for him I had in the ammo closet I took off a 22 i purchased until he can get a real scope. The grian was tight but rather straight and not what i would call deluxe or anything but looked better than the plastic ones. the blueing was great and deep. the bolt was easy to work but he still does not like the mag sticking out on the bottom. Maybe he can purchase the mag in 3 shot for the flush fit if the still fit accross all the line.
We drove out to the farm and in 4 shots I got it hitting the 10 ring at 70 yards ( i used the old one shot and then move the dials to adjust) We put 40 rounds of cheap 223 ammo in it and he was pleased with the proformance. I think he was able to pul off a 1.5 inch group at about 100 yards with that cheap tula ammo i had left over from the machine gun shoot.
I placed a shoot and see sticker over his group and broke out myrem 700 222 with some handloads I have been working on (322 powder and 40 grain speers) and I got a .73 inch group so I was tickle to death and he said he wanted to trade me straight up for my rifle. I know this rifle like the 40 grain bullets but the only ammo I have printer a group aproching this size with was winchester surpreme varmint rounds and they are a dollar a shot. I only had 10 rounds of this load and my 5 shot group rocked. (being new to measuring groups you measure from the furthest edges and subtract the .22 correct?)
I broke out some 223 handload i made up for my contender handgun in reloading class and we were able to reduce the group size to about 1.24 inches. I also had on round that did not go off. Nice dent in primer but no bang.
I don't know wwhat it is going to end up doing but he is not a real consistant shooter as the barrel was dancing around as he shot. I believe this rifle will shoot better than he will be able to do.
I don't know what magic the people at CZ put into the guns they make but I think i would recommend them to ground hog/coyote shooters. I have seen them rock in 22 rimfires but it seems it goes into the centerfire rifles also.
If the wind dies off we are going to the rifle range sunday. It was a great day wednesday when we started shooting only a very mild breeze. As we shot the wind started going up and up and before the light from the sun went away we had to call it because we had a 20 mile and hour cross wind. I guess we caght the start of a front. Not bad for a feb day almost 60 degrees.
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Post by jmarriott on Feb 26, 2012 16:19:34 GMT -5
It works well. CZ strikes with first shot at game. 3 blows of the old reed jackrabbit call and waited 45 seconds and blew one more. Here came this nice large male. One shot and he is hooked on the CZ. I guess a nice morning calling hunt in a muddy field after church is better than a afternoon at the range. The wind was blowing a good 15 mph
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