|
Post by dovehunter on Aug 2, 2009 7:17:19 GMT -5
I was hoping to get a couple of extra barrels for my Handi-Rifle: a .38/.357 and a .45 Colt. A call to H&R/NEF kind of burst my bubble when they said the .45 Colt barrel was no longer available. I am thinking of switching to plan B and getting an accessory .22 Hornet barrel. Since I have a couple of other dedicated varmint rifles/barrels, I thought I'd like to use the Hornet with very light loads for squirrels and some plinking. The obvious choice would be to use cast bullets. However you can't buy .22 cal. cast bullets around here and I haven't seen them advertised in the catalogs of all the usual big mail order/Internet houses. I'm not quite ready yet to get into to doing my own casting so don't recommend that. What I can get locally are fairly cheap bulk 55 gr. FMJ bullets which I guess are intended for use in the AR-type stuff. With this thought in mind I thought I'd pose a couple of questions. Is it safe and feasible to use FMJ bullets with very light powder charges? If so can anyone recommend some loads I might try with the 55 gr. FMJ bullets? As an alternative, does anyone know where I might be able to purchase at a reasonable price cast bullets in maybe the 40-45 gr. range?
|
|
|
Post by Jack on Aug 2, 2009 7:44:53 GMT -5
Don't think that's gonna work, Dovehunter-not with 55's. That bullet is going to be too long to stabilize in the usual 1-16 twist Hornet barrels have. There's no reason you can't shoot a jacketed (soft point or FMJ) bullet out of a Hornet at lower than max velocity- just pick a shorter bullet that the Hornet was designed to work with, like something in the 40-45 grain range. If you want commercially cast lead bullets, Beartooth Bullets makes a 45 grain @19$ per hundred. I don't know if that's what you'd call reasonable or not.
|
|
|
Post by jmarriott on Aug 2, 2009 10:33:27 GMT -5
Dovehunter,
One of the other boards we frequent has a poster/reloading mod who has the most extensive selection of hornet loads I know of.
You can load it down to almost 22 lr levels more like the 22 mag but with a 223 already on it you might just forget it and use the 22 lr for tree shots and the 223 for ground shots. The 22 hornet might carry alot farther shot into the air than one might believe. A long distance tree rat rifle it would be but they normally let me get within 22 lr range before they flee for there lives.
Why did they discontinue the 45 LC it seems a near prefect match for one who hand-loads in a handi.
I like the 22 hornet but love the .222/22 mag/22 lr so well and since I have one or more of each of the others I don't have a need for a hornet and it would have to be a very good deal for me to buy one.
|
|
|
Post by klsm54 on Aug 2, 2009 12:03:23 GMT -5
Ditto to what Jack said. Those 55 fmj bullets are awfully long, even harder to stabilize that a regular 55 grain bullet.......I highly doubt you could get squirrel hunting accuracy with them. Here are some less expensive cast bullets...... www.moyerscastbullets.com/pricelist.html
|
|
|
Post by Jack on Aug 2, 2009 19:44:39 GMT -5
Dovehunter, a couple other thoughts. The standard jacketed Hornet bullet, say, a 40 grain, loaded down to 1800 fps or so, instead of 2400+, probably wouldn't be real destructive on small game. You'd have to try it to be sure. The danger with any reduced jacketed load , fmj or soft point, is having one stick in the barrel. For that reason, I would suggest trying to keep the velocity around 1800 fps or so. Another alternative, if they're still available, would be a cartridge insert. They used to be quite common, and in a single shot like an H&R, they'd be very easy to use. A cartridge insert is a steel insert that you put in the chamber, and holds a smaller cartridge. In the case of a Hornet, I'm sure you could find an insert to fire 22LR from it. Might be made to shoot 22 RF magnums from a Hornet, too. I know Marbles made a bunch of inserts, years ago. Don't know who does now.
|
|
|
Post by twomoons on Aug 3, 2009 9:45:34 GMT -5
Dovehunter I shot quite a few 40 grain bullets with a reduced load in the 22 hornet. At 1500 fps they are BETTER than a 22 mag as they have the power but the bulet doesn't open as quickly and there is less damage on squirrels and such. I will look in my old loading notebook and see what loads I was using. As others have said 55's don't seem to work well in most Hornet barrels and they keyholed pretty badly in the H and R international I had. As to sticking a bullet in the barrel you won't have any problem unless you try for say 600 fps the 1500 loads are all OK.
|
|
|
Post by jimiowa on Aug 3, 2009 13:38:20 GMT -5
Let me check some notes tonight. I have been loading a Winchester 40 grn hollowpoint (cheap bulk bullets, I think I was buying them for around $4 per hundred )in the hornet with some data I got from Rocky Raab. With Squirrel in mind that run in the 22 mag range and as two Moons says it does not do any more damage than a 22 lr.
J Marriot is right that a 22 Lr will do the same, but it's fun to use a Hornet!!
|
|
|
Post by jimiowa on Aug 4, 2009 8:13:56 GMT -5
Ok Here is the load I found and the source was Rocky Raab, pretty well known on the web for his no nonsense aproach to reloading. He reccomended cci small rifle primers(I'm using Winchester) in WW cases 6.0 grn Blue Dot and any good 45 grn bullet for a velocity of aprox 2000 Fps.
I used this load with a Winchester 46grn Hollowpoint(bulk) bullet and found the report to be less than a .22 LR and it shot good groups. It did not burn very clean, but cleans well. I have also used Sierra #1310, & #1340. I have used the Hornady Vmax 40 grn bullet #22241 over 12 grn of Lil Gun(this was the starting load in the Hornady Manual and shot well enough I never tried to ladder up to max for my gun) for my high velocity load and was quite impressed with it's performance(not for edible game). That load shows remarkable velocity for a hornet at a significantly lower pressure than other powders.
S Frame(also pertty well respected on the Coyote Gods Forum) said he could shoot 55 grn bullets in his Ruger 77/22 with 14" twist barrel. He was using a 55 grn Sierra Blitz using 9.5 grn IMR4227 for a velocity of 2,050 fps. I don't remember what the twist is on the handi rifle so would not try the 55 grn without checking. I have found my load and see no point in using the heavier bullets when I have the .222 & .223 to shoot those in. My thinking is the Hornet is what it is and there is no reason to make what it is not. But after all these years of shooting squirrels with the common every day .22 Lr it is fun to use the Hornet! Since I got th Hornet I see no reason to have a .22 Mag or 17 HMR, the Hornet covers both and then some. If I remember correctly a pound of powder works out to several hundred loads in the Hornet(700?) so it's cheaper than either if you reload.
Of the guns I own I find the Hornet to be the most fun of all of them!!
BTW: My Lee Manual shows several loads using different powders and 45 grn bullet in the 1700 FPS-2000 Fps Range. So you should have no problem finding a satisfactory load, possibly using a powder you keep on hand?
|
|
|
Post by jimiowa on Aug 4, 2009 9:17:18 GMT -5
While I would be the last person to discourage one from getting a Hornet. There are other options, like using the .223 you already have. James Calhoon make really good bullets(is the developer of the .19 Calhoon) Often contributes Articles published in Varmint Hunter Magazine,and is an avid gopher hunter with an interesting site. I will post a link to his site. www.jamescalhoon.com/Of particular interest , if you scroll down to the "Informative Articles Section" click on it and then scroll down to the two articles titled "Too Bee or .223" You will find loads that would be suitable for your application using the .223 you already have.
|
|
|
Post by twomoons on Aug 4, 2009 9:24:34 GMT -5
Nah! get a Hornet, a slice of gun history and a teeny tiny case to reload. Actually I like the hornet because it is so easy to use it for everything from mouse to coyote. Full loads are effective on coyotes to 150 yards or a little more and with either cast or lighht jacketed loads it is good for edible small game. In addition you burn less powder and get a little better accuracy than the 222/223. All that said if you have a 223 ther is a fellow in Alaska who makes chamber inserts in 22 lr, 22 hornet and 218 bee.
|
|
|
Post by jmarriott on Aug 4, 2009 10:55:56 GMT -5
In addition you burn less powder and get a little better accuracy than the 222/223. Get that handy rifle all jazzed up and find a load you like for accuracy. I will still out group you at 100 yards with my .222. You did not see the 22 hornet listed as a benchrest round much but the 222 was and is as accurate as they come.
|
|
|
Post by jimiowa on Aug 4, 2009 11:34:39 GMT -5
Well JMarriot, you have to research Benchrest History to find it. But the Hornet was a Benchrest round long before the .222 ever came into being. Also almost unheard of today is the .219 Donaldson Wasp(based on a 30-30 case shortened and necked down) That was the Benchrest king before the .222. Incidently The Donaldson Wasp is the basis of the BFR rounds put out by EA Brown. Here's some interesting reading. www.eabco.com/Reports/report03.htmlNot taking anything away from the .222, I still enjoy the Hornet. And it takes a hell of a good shooter operating off a bench to get the most from any accuracy cartridge. and that's not a field requirement.
|
|
|
Post by jmarriott on Aug 4, 2009 17:33:59 GMT -5
I can cover my 100 yard groups on the .222 with a dime using the outers rifle rest. Out of the rest they open up alot because of me. It is good out to 222 yards on g-hogs and coyotes.
This is from a completely stock rem model 700. I must have gotten lucky when I traded off my rem 700 in 17 rem for the .222. I could not get the 17 rem to shoot good after 10 shots without really cleaning the barrel. I had major copper fouling in it.
The hornet is a great cartridge but I had no idea it was a BR cartridge. I always considered it a 22 mag for people who reloaded. The triple deuce was the round all my dad's bench-rest guys used. Then some went to 6mm BR rounds. I was born in 1965 so anything bench-rest before say 1976 is still a mystery to me. Then his BR guys started shooting pigs and rams with contender pistols and we did not do many BR matches anymore.
|
|
|
Post by dovehunter on Aug 4, 2009 18:55:06 GMT -5
Wow a lot of responses! The main reason I was thinking about getting a Hornet barrel was to have something I could use for squirrels that was reloadable and feasible to use with reduced loads. I had thought I could probably produce handloads with a velocities somewhere in the .22 WMR range that wouldn't be too destructive of meat. I think I will probably go with an accessory barrel rather than an insert for my .223 Rem barrel so I won't have to change the settings on my scope which right now are just the way I want them. I will probably get a low power scope or maybe a red dot for the Hornet barrel. I'll check out some of the URLs you guys recommended for bullets. I think I'll also write H&R/NEF and ask about the twist of their .22 Hornet accessory barrel.
|
|
|
Post by jimiowa on Aug 4, 2009 21:48:14 GMT -5
Speaking of Scopes for the Hornet, I thought of it as a lightweight walking rifle for shooting targets of oportunity. So my thinking was a compact lightweight scope with moderate magnification. I bought a Nikon 4x rimfire scope(the Hornet has less recoil than my .22 autoloader) for around $100. It's the brightest scope I have ever owned and find it perfect for my appplication. The Nikon Prostaff 4x32 RimFire Riflescope (6305) is designed for the rimfire small game and varmint hunter. It is 11.2 inches long, and weighs 11.6 ounces. It has a Nikoplex reticle, and is available in silver, matte black, or Team Realtree camouflage. This 4x32 rifle scope has been parallax adjusted at 50 yards especially for rimfires, and delivers an 11-foot field of view at that distance. Fully waterproof, fogproof, and shockproof, it features 1/4 MOA click adjustments and multicoated lenses. The riflescope features the proven 90% light transmission that has made the Nikon ProStaff Scopes line so popular when last light is the most important time of the day.
|
|