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Post by Purebred Redneck on Sept 11, 2006 19:43:21 GMT -5
For squirrels out of a 22lr I like the hollow points. Yes they tear things up quite a bit more but at least you don't lose as many or fool around with crippled ones. I'm unable to find a decent shooting hollowpoint in my area right now with winchester being out of commission. So I'm shooting 40grain solid match bullets. I took a LONG shot yesterday that was everybit 70 yards. Squirrel was hit low in the chest, jumped off his feet about a foot, and laid there. It should of been a mortal hit. I get up there and the damn thing RUNS about 20 yards and goes into a hole at the base of a tree. I took a stick and started digging him out. I finally saw a tail and pulled him out --- which led to another 20 yard footchase to which I barely kept up. Finally had to shoot him again at about 5 feet as I couldn't catch him. Thing had at least a 22cal hole in his chest for 5 minutes. Couldn't tell if the first shot hit vitals b/c when you aim for the head at 5 feet you hit him square in the back As soon as I can get a hold of some more hollowpoints I'm using them. What about you? Solids or hollowpoint???
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Post by jimh on Sept 11, 2006 20:59:57 GMT -5
Red, for long shots give me Velositors. that being said i can't beleive any squirrel can take a .22 slug in the chest and live to run. i'm not doubting you i just have a hard time beleiving it. does that last line make sence ?
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Post by dakota on Sept 11, 2006 21:05:06 GMT -5
I prefer the hollow points but also I like the high velocity rather than the standard velocity. I looked at a Ruger single six today with a spare mag cylinder. The pistol looked like trash but they would not sell it for $150 and I would not pay $189. In a pistol, I think the mag ammo might be better, but have not tried it yet. When I find a good buy on .22 lr hollowpoints I usaully stock up on them, the last time I did was in the late 1980's and I will have to start looking in the next 5 years or so. But for the next few years I am OK yet.
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Post by klsm54 on Sept 11, 2006 21:40:52 GMT -5
Nothing but Standard Velocity Solids for me. Never lost a squirrel to one. Never shot one at 70 yards though.
My guess is that your shot was a little too low in the chest, Red. I mean, a 1/4" hole through the heart or lungs of a squirrel is about like a 2" hole through a deers boiler room...certain to be lethal.
I will say though that up north, we have no fox squirrels, just grays. If we had bigger squirrels like you southern squirrel hunters have, I might have to give hollow-points a try.
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Post by Jack on Sept 11, 2006 23:21:44 GMT -5
I use the Winchester Power Points (hollow points). They shoot very well out of my 10/22, and I've found them to really anchor a squirrel at any range. Dunno what you mean about 'the demise of Winchester' Red, as the ammo division is a separate company running just fine- has nothing to do with the closed factory of U S Repeating Arms. In my area, Power Points are available about everywhere.
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Post by Purebred Redneck on Sept 11, 2006 23:30:22 GMT -5
I can not find my beloved winchester rimfire ammo. There is a huge shortage of anything except Experts (which doesn't like my guns) due to hurricane katrina knocking out the mississippi plant along with olin's contract with the government. I hear they are going to have them on the market in november - although they said the same thing about last march In a pistol, I would go with the 22mag. It's abvouisly harder to hit a target with a pistol than a rifle. I am a believer in the concept that a bad hit with a larger caliber is as equal as a good hit with a smaller caliber. Know as JimH says, for long shots go with the more lethal rounds. Normally I agree. With me, there's two things different 1. I do most of my hunting before other states even open their season - which means my shots are typically under 50 yards 2. With as much as I drink a week I'm lucky to be steady enough to hit a squirrel with a 22lr at 50 yards But within a reasonable distance, I'll try for a lethal headshot. Therefor, I want the most accurate round with little chance of a flyer. Therefor, I do try to go with a match bullet which is ussually a solid point by nature. I do like the powerpoint hollowpoint. I do like the CCI minimags (although they don't shoot very well in my guns). I absolutly love the old dimpled Win Dynapoints rounds that was a perfect inbetween round of a solid vs hollowpoint and match vs bulk. This round gave consistant 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 groups every single time with no flyers at 50 yards for me in both my bolt and semi-auto marlin. It was very predictable for me even though it was not the most accurate. A 4 shot 1/2 inch group means nothing in squirrel hunting if the 5th shot goes 3 inchs in whatever direction. The problem with bulk rounds is the flyers. It does no good to have 20 % of your shots missing a squirrel size target. The same goes with hyper velocity rounds like vipers, yellowjackets, stingers, and velocitors. They have extreme power but even power doesn't make up for a complete miss as these rounds generally produce over a 2 inch groups at 50 yards (although velocitors are generally regarded as a the most accurate of the hyper rounds). The ideal squirrel round is one that is hollowpoint, high velocity, and gives under 1 1/2 groups at 50 yards, and has no flyers. This narrows it down to 3-4 rounds like powerpoints, remington high velocity (though I don't care for remington ammo b/c of extreme inconsistancy of their bulk rounds...just rubs off on me on their other products), and mini-mags.
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Post by jabba on Sept 12, 2006 11:50:01 GMT -5
Wow. It seems I can shoot dime sized groups with my .22's with CCI minimags without flyers. I have not done it for a while... but I have always been able to. With 3 different rifles too. A remington, a Springfield and a Ruger 10/22.
I have moved to the .22 mag for squirrels though. I like to use it as a tune up in stalking and marksmanship for deer season.
Jabba
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Post by dovehunter on Sept 12, 2006 14:24:38 GMT -5
I stopped using hollow points years ago as I got tired of having pureed squirrel. I use solid point Remington highspeeds exclusively now in all my .22s. I may loose one in a long, long while but it's probably only because I wavered a bit when I squeezed the trigger. I'd be willing to bet I'd have lost the same squirrel had I been using hollow points if I hit it in the same place.
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Post by jimh on Sept 12, 2006 19:19:12 GMT -5
The problem with bulk rounds is the flyers. It does no good to have 20 % of your shots missing a squirrel size target. I dunno Red to me that means 80% of the time i'm gonna anchor that rascle. but i guess i am more of a glass half full kind a guy and you're, well, sorta "THE DAMN SKY IS FALLING". sorry red i just had to.
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Post by Purebred Redneck on Sept 12, 2006 20:09:14 GMT -5
I dunno Red to me that means 80% of the time i'm gonna anchor that rascle. but i guess i am more of a glass half full kind a guy and you're, well, sorta "THE DAMN SKY IS FALLING". sorry red i just had to. I've had a few afterwork drinks and Jimh just made a fool out of me. I read the sky is falling and I serouisly looked up, thought "why the hell are you looking up if the sky is falling - it may hit you, so I ducked down a little until I realized I'm a retard ;D ;D ;D Ok, so 80% of your rounds are going to be able to hit a squirrel sized target at 50 yards off a bench (assuming those 4 rounds actually go bang). Could one or two of those rounds be pushing the outskirts of a squirrel sized target Know take those same rounds and use them in the woods where visibility may be a factor, the squirrel is moving a bit, and most importantly you don't have a rest which causes the bullet to hit perhaps high, low, left, or right. So your 4 out of 5 could easily turn into 2 out of 5 at further distances depending on the situation and the individual bullet's "destiny". Of course you could accidently squeeze the trigger when an inch too low and the darned POS of a bullet produces an inch high flyer and you're on ;D ;D ;D But I'd like the most consistancy I can but will settle for a decent group with a good bullet design.
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Post by jimiowa on Sept 12, 2006 22:38:08 GMT -5
I prefer solids and the number of squirrels I'll get to hunt in 1 season is small enough I have no qualms about using Ely Club which costs about $4.00 for 50 rounds. It shoots very well in my rifle and is worth the Difference. I almost always take headshots and if a .22 solid anchors butchering hogs it ought to handle a squirrel.
I have no problem plinking with bulk, or shooting it in my 22/45 wher I have enough wobble to offset any advantage target ammo affords.
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donnie
Grand Member
Posts: 584
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Post by donnie on Sept 12, 2006 23:31:57 GMT -5
I shoot solids too. And always opt for a head shot. A decent rifle should be more than capable of keeping all of its rounds in a squirrels head at 50 yards. I'm not sure I may have lost a squirrel or two over the years but like dove hunter if I did I'm sure it was my own fault. When I was a kid I had to hunt with .22 shorts and they seemed plenty good for killing even the biggest old fox squirrels I could find.
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Post by jabba on Sept 13, 2006 6:51:11 GMT -5
Yeah... 99% of the time I miss, I KNOW why I missed.
I am a head shooter too, but prefer CCI Mini-Mag hollow points.
Some people say shooting a squirrell in the head is a crime as the brains are the best part. Not for this boy...
Jabba
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Post by sebastian on Sept 13, 2006 12:44:03 GMT -5
I am a believer in the concept that a bad hit with a larger caliber is as equal as a good hit with a smaller caliber. Red I just read this thread and I have to dissagree with your belief... ;D Here is my simple explanation...if you hit a game (for instance a pig) on its brain even just with a little caliber (for instance a 22.lr) the game would be dead instantly. If you hit the same game on his stomach or its butt, although you use a .470 nitro or so, I doubt that you can kill it istantly (chance is, you will still need to track etc). I fully understand that a good markmanship is not so easy to learn or accomplished. In my observation (from what i can see), to be a good shot someone need some "talent" except just having lots of practices and experiences. I found that some peoples/beginners can shoot good just in a short of time, while I also found that many old timers with lots of experience etc couldn't shoot well. However, I envy you for your honesty for not being a good shot! Being one of your friend, please allow me to suggest you to build your self confidence (i think by practice...sad thing, huh?), and most of alll always make such evaluation for what you've done before (and try to correct it)...such as how you handle the situation, to find your best position & techique, etc....but please do not always think "which one works the best for you" at this time because I'm sure you still must learn...just like me. (reason is, when you always think "what work best for me", you wouldn't be able to see/understand other things, which may probably would work even better for you)....I'm not teaching you, just a little insight from me, as your friend. .....Another suggestion is, try to use "the best" equipments, or ammos (etc) you can. Maybe you don't want to hear this, but for me, it is lot better to have a few equipments but "my best" - rather than to use/have lots of "average" stuffs. Simple, because I know the differences. Always "think the best!" if I can suggest you...."even" if you don't really need to be a very good shot... P.S.: If you hit a squirrel but still run although you hit it on the chest (in your case), you might try low speed/sub sonic .22lr ammos such as for pistol. I found some little critters still run when they were hit on the chest with high speed ammos...maybe it's just too fast and "just through?", not making good impact. (not really a problem when you hit the critters right on the head). When shooting local birds in my area with high speed airguns, I found many of them still can fly (a bit) although it was being hit on the chest. But when I used or set the airgun for low speed (the same pellet), most of them dead instantly. This is just my own experience, but it might probably work for you, too. Anyway, please notice that you must care about wind direction, the more trajectory etc when using subsonic ammos. seb.
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Post by Purebred Redneck on Sept 13, 2006 20:19:40 GMT -5
Thanks for your suggestions sebastian. Yeah, I've said a bad large cal hit can be as equal as a good small cal hit. You bring up a valid example with the pig. But, here's my theory: A good hit with a small caiber can be alright but it's got to be a good hit. If it's a bad hit, you're going to be in trouble and waste a lot of time. A good hit with a large caliber is going to be alright. If it's a bad hit, it's not nessissarily the end of the world as it will conflict more harm to an animal. Let me ask you this I'm going to shoot two pigs (I say pigs just because you mentioned it) in the stomach. I'll give you a million dollars if you can find this pig either dead or you finishing it off. You can only pick one of the pigs to follow and the only thing you know is the pig that ran to the left was shot with a 270 and the pig on the right was shot with a 300winmag. Notice I choose two rounds that are halfway close to another. I'm going after the pig on the right. How about you? In this thread's example, I used the statement when taking into account the gun, bullet selection, and size of game. Pistols for most people are hard to shoot accuratly past the "self defense" distance measured in feet (not yards/meters). Now try to kill a squirrel at 20-25 yards or further. A .22inch hole in chest on a squirrel from a 22lr is going to get the same results as a 22 mag that is going to do some SEROUIS damage on any type of hit. Typically if you're shooting a pistol at game you're just playing around and you're going to go pick up the squirrel/rabbit right away. Crippled game is not so much an issue b/c you walk right up and step on his head if he's still moving. I haven't had enough "mentally documented" experience with chest hits to say whether or not the velocity alone is a factor on chest hits that don't produce a quick kill. I have had problems every year with chest hit squirrels but can't remember the bullet selection. As you said, I wonder which produces more shock to small game A. a high velocity (higher energy out of the barrel) solid bullet that passes quickly through B. A low velocity (lower energy from the start) solid bullet that will lose even more velocity once it hits the target (as a percentage) I've shot subsonic ammo before but I don't think I've hunted with them before. I often overlook them because of the few selections --- and as you said they do stray a little more in the wind. This is not a problem in the woods as the wind is minimal or nonexistant - but it is more of a problem at the range.
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