|
Post by jimh on Aug 17, 2009 13:29:33 GMT -5
if a guy was wanting to buy a ready to go package in either flint lock or cap what brand & models would you suggest. this would be for deer mostly. is traditions ok? what brand would you stay away from? also what kind of price should i expect to pay? not counting the accesories.
|
|
|
Post by deputydon on Aug 17, 2009 14:03:26 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Purebred Redneck on Aug 17, 2009 19:23:36 GMT -5
I love this topic ;D
I'll have to do a little research of what's still available and get back with you.
It might take me a day or two.
|
|
|
Post by Jack on Aug 17, 2009 22:48:21 GMT -5
A friend of mine has a ML from Cabela's- I think Lyman made it- nice gun. I must say, not being a purist, I bought a used CVA- it kills deer just fine. I hear lots of bad stuff about cheap CVA's, but I can't complain.
|
|
|
Post by Purebred Redneck on Aug 17, 2009 23:39:28 GMT -5
There's a few points I want to make. With it being late, I'm sure I forgot something or made myself unclear. #1 Let's take a look at the rifle twists- 1:66" is a round ball twist.
- 1:48" is a jack of all trades but master of none twist (although with so many brands of bullets out there there should be something that shoots well at 100 yards. So it's a good choice)
- 1:32" is a bullet twist.
A 1:66 50caliber is a little underpowered because you're shooting round balls out of it. If you avoid the shoulder, you should get a nice flat quarter size chuck of lead lodged up against the hide on the other side. Sometimes you'll get two holes. It does a good job, but don't hit the shoulder. Because of the shoulder, I wouldn't buy a round ball rifle unless it was a 54 or 58 caliber. I wouldn't be afraid at all to buy a 50 caliber provided it was 1:48" or 1:32 (which is uncommon in a sidelock) #2 Preference to buying it newWith a used muzzleloader, hard telling what you're getting. If the barrel is rusted and pitted, it won't shoot right. The locking mechanism may not work. A lot of it is drop in parts (if it's a current model), but for a beginner I don't think it's worth the hassle. These guns lose their value tremendously so the bad used ones and the good used ones are going to be the same price. There's just no telling the difference. I'd rather buy new personally. Sometimes deals are too good to pass up though. Be prepared though... #3 Buy it in a store if the prices are similarYou can obvouisly do a mail order if you'd like, but muzzleloaders (certain brands) have no quality control what so ever (cough cough Traditions). You'll end up buying junk and then have the hassle of sending it back and hoping you'll be happy with it's replacement. It isn't that Traditions is a bad rifle - it's that you may have to go through 2 or 3 of them before you get one that's good. I think there's better brands out there, but then again it's perfectly fine as a beginner rifle. I'd be buying it at bass pro or cabelas though --- in the store. The upper end products like Lyman would have a better shot at perfection. If you can save a considerable amount of money online, it might be worth the gamble. #4 Don't buy a full Kentucky stock or a flintlockYou can't hardly clean a Kentuky rifle properly and a flintlock is too big of a PITA. #5 I'd go for a full barrel They tend to shoot better especially past 50 yards compared to the short barreled guns. These are some of the cheapest though (especially traditions) so it might be a good starter rifle. Ok, there are two types of rifle you should be looking for A. Hawken - a more modern fully adjustable sight. It's a much more bulky gun. These are the cheapest. B. "Frontier style" - They call them different names (these are not kentucky rifles with the long stock). They typically have more of a primative buckhorn style sight. I think they balance better than the Hawkens. With your small frame, I think you'd appreciate a thinner stock that this style typically provides. Both styles offer a curved butt (meant to be shot a little lower down the arm) and your standard butt (though somewhat rare). Single triggers and double hair triggers are both available. You being so anal and all about triggers you'd probably like a double. There's a lot of good products by Lyman and the Cabelas sub-brand. Traditions is ok, but you have to really look it over and take it completly apart before buying. Cabelas and Midway has a nice selection. Bass Pro has the Traditions brand. Go to Cabelas and look at the two styles. You'll probably be attracted to one more than the other. Just don't make an impulse purchase.
|
|
|
Post by jimh on Aug 18, 2009 6:55:55 GMT -5
Just don't make an impulse purchase. that may very well be my worste habit and the single best piece of advice on this venture. ;D
|
|
|
Post by Jack on Aug 18, 2009 7:26:32 GMT -5
Good point on the twist rates, Red. I would disagree a bit on buying a used ML. Particularly when buying from a store where they have a return policy. If you're concerned about a rusted bore, which is a legitimate concern, you can check that. Looking down the bore with a light is one way, or running a lightly oiled patch down the bore- if the patch fits the bore, you can feel pits. Look for red rust on the patch when you pull the patch out. There are bargains out there in used ML's- often from people that decide they don't want to go through all the steps needed to shoot an ML and maintain it.
|
|
|
Post by jmarriott on Aug 18, 2009 7:30:10 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by jmarriott on Aug 18, 2009 7:33:00 GMT -5
Good point on the twist rates, Red. There are bargains out there in used ML's- often from people that decide they don't want to go through all the steps needed to shoot an ML and maintain it. That is me. Don't like the rotten eggs smell. Would rather use a bow in late season or hopefully one day a X-bow.
|
|
|
Post by dovehunter on Aug 18, 2009 7:53:51 GMT -5
I have a Navy Arms .50 cal. Morse reproduction. It's a percussion gun using no. 11 caps. I've had it for probably 25 yrs. now and, though I don't hunt with it, I have shot it fairly often. I've never shot anything in it but round balls but it is very accurate with its standard open sights, at least to the extent of my ability. I've never had any problems with it and would wholeheartedly endorse anything from Navy Arms.
|
|
|
Post by Bill on Aug 18, 2009 8:56:06 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by jimh on Aug 18, 2009 11:02:43 GMT -5
again there's my ignorance and the reason for my post. i just was useing the term cap for any of the type, but really i was wanting 209 primer type.
|
|
bounce
Royal Member
Posts: 5,727
|
Post by bounce on Aug 18, 2009 11:51:29 GMT -5
Bill has in his gun library a nice cased muzzel loader for someone................whith several thousands of $ lol. Is their a story with that gun bill?
Non inline advice wanted?? but only a inline do I want? 209 primer type is what I want. WHY?
|
|
|
Post by jimh on Aug 18, 2009 12:11:32 GMT -5
Red what type was yours? ok i think Reds was a cap, that's the kind i was leaning towards. i'm all mixed up, can you tell i know nothing on this shit?
|
|
|
Post by klsm54 on Aug 18, 2009 14:30:38 GMT -5
My vote would be Lyman. I prefer the Great Plains model. It is a round ball gun, 1-60" twist. I would go .54 caliber But, if you want a shorter lighter gun the Deerstalker is an option. It is a combo gun, 1-48" twist. As far as Flint or percussion, I would choose the percussion unless you want to make your deer hunting even a little more challenging.
|
|