35 rem (IDC) short

[jmarriott]

Kind of my own cheap version of a wildcat idea. trim 35 rem brass down to 1.8 inches and feed in a 1958 marlin SC 336.

Next year the Indiana deer hunting rules are changing and brass in rifle cartridges is allowed to be 1.80 and now the rules only allow 1.65. I am happy with my 44 mag for my hunting round as it is in a clever package and I have had good results in the last few years with it. We must go 357 cal and above also. If we could use the .284 i would go 7-30 waters and call it a winner.

If one was to trim his brass .120 to reach the 1.8 limit it would seem to be a nice Indiana deer legal caliber to use and unlike some of the other wildcat rounds made to max the range of a rifle normally using the WSSM and WSM rounds and resize trim fire form and all that jazz. No new brass to buy, have the rifle and the reloading dies. Leverevolution powder seems to produce nice vel at low pressure. prefect for the 35 rem. I would keep the overall lenght the same. The round seats on the shoulders. Seems .120 would not be so much as to not get bullets in the 180 and 200 grain size to seat in the case.

I have use the 35 rem in a contender pistol for years and it is a good deer round. Much better than the ballistics charts seem to indicate it would be. Maybe the 35 rem hit a sweet spot on speed and bullet weight. I know the 7-30 waters did.

The marlin is a waffle top and has a peep sight. I am not expecting a long range rifle here. More of a classic rilfe open sights, abiltiy to take a deer at 200 yards, and deer legal in Indiana per the rules of the king.

I am not going to push these loads much Would like to basically produce rem core loc 200's or gummy tip hornaday 180's. In the pistol I have had great deal of experance with the single shot pistol bullets but to use them would make the rifle a 2 shot rifle: one in the tube and one in the barrel. If they preform well it might be well worth it as I rarely get more than a couple of rounds off anyway.

Cons 5 0r 6 reloads on the brass since the 35 rem is a low cpu round and the brass will get trimmed back legal again. Oh and I have a hundred or so once fired brass.

Does anyone have a box of hornaday leverevolution in 35 rem. I do know the 44 mag stuff of theres has shorter brass than winchester white box. Maybe it is 1.8 already. Would seem to be about that amount if my 44 mag measurements are accurate.

Ideas?
Thoughts?

[Jack]

OK, a couple things specific to leverguns need to be looked at.
One is crimp. If you shorten the 35 Rem case .120, are you going to seat bullets at the same length as a standard 35 Rem? Or seat the bullets .120 deeper? If you seat the bullet deeper, you can crimp on the crimping groove in the bullet. If you seat the bullets out farther, lack of crimp may be a problem. Also, if you seat the bullets deeper so you can crimp, you'll have to work up loads- standard 35 Rem data won't work. Bullet seated deeper = less case volume.
Another thing specific to leverguns is cartridge length, in terms of feeding. Make a cartridge shorter or longer than standard, leverguns can get squirrelly about feeding them.
Chop .120 off the neck of a 35 Rem, you'll have just under .200 of neck left. Will that be enough to firmly hold a bullet?
Those are some of the things you will have to look at.
My first thought, when reading your post, was that, life might be easier with a rimmed, straight wall (or close to it) case, like a 38-55, 444 Marlin, or 375 Winchester. Trim any of those to the 1.8 you have to have, and they'd still chamber. Sort of like firing a 22 short in a long rifle chamber.
You'd still have to see if they fed ok, and work up loads.
Sounds like an interesting project!

[deputydon]

If you start seating deeper isn't there also a chance of having pressure problems ?

[deputydon]

If you start seating deeper isn't there also a chance of having pressure problems ?

[dovehunter]

Rather than taking a chance on blowing up yourself and your gun by shortening a .35 Rem case and trying to load for it with no load data, why not consider going to something that shoots the 7.62x39 Russian cartridge? You could get a surplus SKS. I have seen several bolt actions chambered for this round and I think it is chambered in the NEF Handi-rifle. By my math, the 7.62x39 case computes to be about 1.5" +/-. I understand that this round is quite accurate in decent rifles. Just a thought.

[twomoons]

Why shorten the case at all the 336 feeds 35 rem just fine I have one here as we speak.

[jimiowa]

It's interesting that Indiana specify's cartrdge length for deer hunting and you can use wildcats. Iowa DNR specifys specifically what handgun cartridges are legal.

[jmarriott]

It is just an idea I am considering. My thought was to keep the OAL as normal. Just trimming the brass down to 1.8 to be a legal Indiana deer cartridge.

I don't think that pressure will be an issue, I am not going to hot rod it up. now getting the bullet to seat in .200 .

The powers that be (Indiana DNR) will never allow the 7.62 X 39 as everyone would get a sks or ak and blast up the woods. It has the be 357 cal and up. Whick wipes out the AK round and the 7-30 waters.

Is the 444 marlin a tapered case even if the outside is straight walled, Lots of the contender wildcats for SKS industries and JD Jones used the 444 marlin as a parent case.

I need to break out the calipers and see what the hornaday 35 leverevolution measures.

[bounce]

My experance on leverevoution in 32 two special is they can go in the garbage can. They are not even close to hiting were the old standard 170gr will group and at their price they are not worth any changes if that would help even?

[jmarriott]

My 44 mag leverevolutions shoot high about 2.5 inches at 50 yards and 3 .5 at 100 compaired to winchester white box 44 mags. They do group larger but in a rifle winchester white box is hard to beat anyway. I think it is the heavy crimp on the rounds.

Here is a sample of a 358 win with the brass shortened and the OAL set back a touch.
I take it getting the bullet seated exactly center of the case is going to be the problem. I have yet to trim down a 35 rem case to see what i would have to seat it into but the 358 win is more extreme than the 35 rem.

For some reason it won't upload to p-bucket.

I might just look at going the xp-hunter way and build up a long range pistol. Heck a 50 bmg round is legal in indiana in a pistol. 30-06 270 and of course my 35 rem and 7-30 waters.

[dovehunter]

Dec 17, 2011 9:58:13 GMT -5 jmarriott said:

...I might just look at going the xp-hunter way and build up a long range pistol. Heck a 50 bmg round is legal in indiana in a pistol. 30-06 270 and of course my 35 rem and 7-30 waters.

You have some really dumb laws regarding hunting cartridges/weapons in Indiana! And I thought Virginia was bad with it's stupid, antiquated Sunday hunting prohibition.

[jmarriott]

This just shows how dumb our deer hunting regs are.



If you can go deer hunting with a super short magnum with ballistics that exceed .30-06, why not let people just hunt with a gol-darned .30-06?

I was told that the philosophy is that not everyone will lay out the $$$ and trouble to build the exotic gun. Only a few that have some shooting sense. But if you open it up then every idiot will be slinging high powered bullets in every direction.

+Same with the handcannon's. Most people won't spend the money on something they likely can't shoot well. So the normal deer hunter uses a 44 mag handgun. here on handguns we can go down to 243 win and up to anything at all.

Some of the 358 wildcats are launching 200 grain noslers at 2630. 180s SSP's at 2739. They are using WSSM And WSM rounds. That is 30-06 power from a 1.8 inch fat ass little case.

[jmarriott]

Here is the pic of the 358 win short. Cut down to 1.8 on the brass and in thise case seated to a shorter OAL.



The 35 rem shoulld not be quite as extreme.