45 Colt the Long and the Short of it !

[twomoons]

Here's one for you is there such a thing as a 45 LONG Colt. You make your posts and then I will tell you what I have found and you can make your decision.

[Jack]

Twomoons, Im sure you're more of an expert on this than I am.
I'd say 'no, not really'
There is the 45 Colt, of course.
If I remember right, back in the day when the 45 Colt was the Army pistol cartridge, the issue firearms were the S&W Scofield and the Colt 1873- both revolvers, of course. The Scofield was a top break, that used a slightly shorter case than what we know today as the 45 Colt. The 1873 Colt could use either the standard 45 Colt cartridge, or the slightly shorter Scofield cartridge.
People started calling the 45 Colt the 'long' Colt to differentiate between the one we know today, and the slightly shorter case for the Scofield.

[klsm54]

Ditto to what Jack said. I also think it is a carryover from the 38 Short Colt and 38 Long Colt, also popular about the time the 45 Colt came to be.

[dovehunter]

I myself make this same mistake, I guess because I have seen so many others use the same reference.

[bounce]

The .45 colt buntline is a long colt. Sheriff moldels are short colts

[twomoons]

"Where are we going this week Mr. Peabody?" "Well Sherman we're going back in time to 1873 and we'll be visiting the Colt factory".

The true facts are buried in time and we may never be able to give a definate answer but...
In 1873 Colt developed the SAA for the military and mated it with the 45 Colt cartridge. They gave the cartridge just enough rim to withstand the bloow of a firing pin but noot much more because the SAA used a rod to push the empties out from the inside. By 1875 Col Schofield was pushing for the S and W revolver as a duty gun because you could load it faster and it ejected all the empties at one fell swoop. Well and good but the S and W needed more of a rim for ejection and S and W was not going to tool up to make longer cylinders for the gun so they just shortened the 45 Colt into the 45 Schofield. The fact that Colt would not license other manufactures to use their patented 45 ctg was probably also a factor here, this is why Winchester didn't make 45 Colt rifles, Colt wouldn't let them!

Now we have 2 45's that fit in the SAA the 45 Colt and the shorter 45 S and W or Schoefield. And here is where the confuusion starts. I have seen army purchase orders specifying, Send ctgs for 45 (long) Colts. They didn't want the short bullets even thought they were both loaded with the same 28 grains of powder.

So here we have some rational for a LONG Colt but still nothing definate.

Now skip to 1880 and Colt has expanded thier line of ctgs and we can now buy 32 and 38's in LONG and SHORT marked boxes. But 45's are still only marked 45 COLT. BUT...

I recently saw a box of Peter's ctgs. and the ctgs therein were the same dimensions as a 45 Schoefield, and the box was clearly marked 45 SHORT Colt ! Since there were in a collection I was not able to take one apart but at least in the 1890's there were SHORT Colts. This and the Army orderes for the LONG Colt's shows that at least in the popular vernacular the 45 Colt was refered to as the LONG Colt. In addition this appelation would have been re enforced in 1911 when the 45 ACP was introduced and there were still 45 Colt revolvers in stock.

My bottom line is that if you want to call it the LONG Colt you'll get no argument from me!

Nuff Said


Two Moons

[bounce]

Now do both long & short colts fit long & short colts? What does your history research tell us T/M's or is Ned's long colt a phony? and just a modern day long colt like the .45 LC winchester type rifle, today but not yesterday?

[twomoons]

Booth shells fit the SAA and Elmer Keith in Sixguns talks abouut shooting the short ones with collar button bullets (gallery loads) in the local barber shop. The Schoefield revolver would only chamber the 45 shoort of Schoefield round in the early days, modern reproductions are all for either long or short. As for 45 Colt in a rifle I have heard that the reason there were no Winchester's in 45 Colt was that Colt would not license them to use the shell. That is probably whyy S and W never made the cylinders longer on thier guns, why adapt your gun to a ctg you can't legally use. We'll go into the Buntline revolver in Handguns next week as there arre some surprises there too.

[klsm54]

I figured Mr. Peabody would have the answer... ;D If not, you could have consulted with Phineas T. Whoopee. He could have shown us on his 3DBB... ;D

[Jack]

Seems to me I've seen some 45 Scofield brass for sale, just recently- newly made stuff. Maybe Starline?