donnie
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Post by donnie on May 8, 2006 15:18:16 GMT -5
I'm a little late with the start of spring training this year, My sons surgery really has eaten up all my time (rightfully so) Today was the first opportunity I had to get the dogs back out in the field and we headed over to pine island for some upland and water work. Things went about as well as could be expected considering the dogs have been on unemployment since the end of January. I ran several sets of quad retrieves for Kate. (four birds on the water at one time) and directed her to pick them up in the order I choose. I had a few whistle refusals from her as well as a few vocalizations coming off the line. But all in all not too terrible. Moving on to upland work we ran a couple blind retrieves before going on to trailing work. Those went pretty well and I'm thinking we aren't too far out of hunting form. Will did well as always being a little more laid back than the young dog no where near as fast in the field and he tends to cover about half the ground Kate does but he has long ago learned to think things through and doesn't need to work quite as hard. Looks like I'm going back to playing baseball with Kate for a while til she learns her left from right and back from both! Bill, When you get your copy of game dog in the mail you'll see some of the handling drills we are running.
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Post by Bill on May 9, 2006 8:35:15 GMT -5
I have been considering baseball also. Throw the dog up and whack her with a ball bat. She has began to play games while were walking. Tries to go a direction other than what I want her to. SO I introduced some new things into the walk to correct this. Its called a turn. Right before you comand turn you say Turn and make a right hand turn. If the pup isn't paying attention and is screwing around it can be a bit rough on her for the next 5' or so. Only takes a few turns to asure she pays attention. Another thing I have done when she begins to really try to drag you while walking is to stop her and make her sit. Then while she is sitting you walk around her in a circle all the time saying stay. If she tries to get up you sit her again and start the process all over again. It didn't take long for her to learn that because I move it dosn't mean she can move. It also gets her mind off draging me and really gets her Sit down good. Another thing I do if she starts to try to drag me is a short sharp jerk on the leash. Nothing seriouse. I now only have to lightly tug and she has the idea. All this sounds good but it don't work every time and if your not constantly on guard she will show you your not paying attention.
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Post by Bill on May 9, 2006 9:22:09 GMT -5
;D Donnie, a light went on today. The other day I had bought a pair of pheasant wings. This morning I sewed it onto a dummie so it worked just like a wing. Flopped around like a shot pheasants wing would do. ;D I didn't know how she would react but the whole time I was sewing it onto the dummie she was going nuts. So when I finally had it sewen on she was really wound up. Totally wanted it. Well I threw it for her finally and she about rolled up the gound to get to the dummie. I thought "Man she isn't even going to bring that back to me. Well I had a bit of patiance with her and let her chew it a bit then it was "Run to boss and show him what I got" Well I let her have about ten retrives with it before I quit and put it up. Her excitement never did abate like it does sometimes with the regular dummie. Thought I had better quit while I was ahead. That dumb thought I had on the wing really paid off. It works. I think I'm going to get some pheasant scent and put on it and see what it does although I'm sure there is some scent on the wing already.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on May 9, 2006 17:40:18 GMT -5
LOL Awesome! Now, Quit warning your dog that you are going to turn! Why do you need to worry about where she is? She needs to be concerned about where you are at all times. Just make the turn and walk right into her. She will learn from this to pay attention to you while she is in the "heel" position. Any number of commands are delivered to her from heel. If she is already used to paying attention to you from that position the transfer of commands later will go much easier for you. besides Turn is a useless command that will never be used in the field. If she continues to pull the lead just reverse direction. This will make her a little less certain of her continuing direction of travel and a lot less likely to drag you or more importantly Julie down the street with a dislocated shoulder. The wing is a great idea never to early to introduce feathers. Hang in there man you are doing good things here!!!!
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Post by Bill on May 10, 2006 9:58:37 GMT -5
Some days I'm not so sure about it and some I know its improving. One thing I can say and thats if you get lazy with the whole thing for just ONE MINUTE everything can turn to crap in a hurry and you have to start from step one again. This morning we went back to the old dummie that I had stuffed on the innards back into after she had ripped it open and I sewed it back shut with better thread. I sometimes like to see just how or if her attention span has gone to. We got 10 retrives before I got a sign that she was ready to quit or get bored and stopped right there. This afternoon I intend to give her about 8 retrives with the dummie with the wing, then quit. That is after I get the weeds mowed.
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bounce
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Post by bounce on May 10, 2006 13:45:40 GMT -5
Their is a resion why blind guide dogs are not trained for two years bill, thats so they don't have to be contiuely re-trained....lol
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Post by Bill on May 11, 2006 7:57:12 GMT -5
If I waited till this pup was two years old I would never get her trained. She would be so spoiled it would be impossible. You will also notice that most of these dogs are already started when they get them too Bounce. So someone else put in the time prior to the training like I'm doing. I quit the word turn and now all I do is do the turn and she follows right on around like she is supposed to. ;D I look at the word comand thing as laying the ground work. It seems to work good for a starter training. Whats fun to see is when she sees a bird. She stops and holds perfectly still watching the bird. I figured that she would go tearing off after it but that don't happen. With all the resident population of geese in the area and around town they are constantly flying over. Thats even more fun to watch as she will stop what she is doing and watch them, even if she is playing. ;D I think the pup even with her draw backs is doing awsome. If you get your expectations up too high you will be disapointed but if you work on one thing at a time and go back every so often and reinforce the things already gone over then you never seem to be too badly disapointed. Actually you get suprised. ;D
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Post by jimh on May 11, 2006 8:56:07 GMT -5
Bill, she gonna be a upland dog or waterfowl dog? or is she gonna hit from both sides of the plate?
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bounce
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Post by bounce on May 11, 2006 9:29:16 GMT -5
I know the 2 year rule applyes to all but that just don't happen with a pet... smiles... as your right about them being spoiled in that time. for the two year thing to work they must be just done the basics early then tied in the back yard and just minimal care then at two years it gets it's new and permanate owner, Their dumb as a rock but love that new guy and will do anything to please them for life and they learn like a sponge and never lose it. just don't train any bad habits as they will retain them too lol
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Post by Bill on May 11, 2006 22:05:54 GMT -5
If you read Wolters book on training Labs for seeing eye dogs Bounce you will find out that the two year old thing is a thing of the past and has changed in the last 5 year or so. I guess there are some new things out in dog learning that has changed all that. JimH, I'm hoping she is going to be a switch hitter and handle both water and upland. I do both so both will be good. ;D Hell right now I'm just hoping that she stays alive long enough for Donnie to get his hands on her. A few more bites and the wife just might attack her and bite her throat out. The day before yesterday was a 5 bandaid day for her so I can understand sort of. Problem is its all food related. She just don't think she is getting enough food. I feed her the regular amount in the morning and by 3:00 pm she is ravinous and ready to kill for food. If you wait till one of us gets off work at 5:00 its worth your life to get near enough to her to feed her but if you do and get her fed she is fine the rest of the evening. I have been following the directions on the bag up to this point for a dog of her weight but their isn't an ounce of fat on this pup so maybe I might have to up her food. If I do this and she becomes more hmm congenial that thats probably what the problem was.
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Post by jabba on May 12, 2006 6:32:37 GMT -5
I always let my pups eat all they want, unless they start to get unhealthy fat. I have not had that happen. I know a lot of dog people disagree, but I always seem to end up with dogs that will eat what they need without over doing it.
Jabba
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Post by jimh on May 12, 2006 7:39:02 GMT -5
Bill i ran into the same problem with our pooch two years ago and consulted my vet on what i should do. she just told me as long as i was using the proper "Large Breed" puppy chow that increasing it a tad would be alright but to watch for signs of too much in her body make up. and as i recall it only lasted about 5 months like that. up to now i have kept our dog very trim and somewhat fit (she could get a tad more exersise). i just noticed this past couple weeks that she has lost that real trim look so i weighed her, she was at 73lb and i wanted to keep her around 65. i checked the cup we use for her food and how much she should be eating and it turns out that when the midgets are heaping the cup full on her feedings she is actualy getting about 30% more than she should for the day. so i now have the cup marked and i am making sure they feed her the proper amounts. i did take mine off the puppy chow at 10 months though as back then she had filled out nicely and i wanted to keep her from going into the round dog look. summertime is a real treat for her since my wife teaches and her and the boys are home. she gets lots of play time then (loves the trampoline) and keeps a real fit look, but winter takes it's toll on her waist. well mine too.
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bounce
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Post by bounce on May 12, 2006 8:19:19 GMT -5
I'm with jabba on feed, but I know bill want's molly to crap on comand. and food in is food out!! but most dogs do know just what they need. you just need to be feeding the correct fomula. I think hand & time feeding is the most dificult way to not get it right and underfeed or allso the best way to a fat dog by over feeding when they are so darn hungery, if it's their all the time they just take what they need. it accualy saves feed. You can not tell by reading lables. like right now mine are not eating much at all, at times it really goes. The point is they know and you don't.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on May 12, 2006 12:31:28 GMT -5
My method is a bit differant, I like to use the guidelines that are provided but bear in mind that just like people every animal has a differant nutritional requirement. If she's still hungry let her have a bit more food. But keep an eye out as Jabba says for wieght gain that is not healthy. Right now the most important part of her feeding is her mineral and vitimin intake. It is important that the food you feed be of good quality and have a high fat and protien content. I have spent a lot of time with the folks from Purina as well as Nutri Source. Both companys endorse high protien levels to help an animal recover from hard hunting as well as protection from injury. The arguiment they make makes sence to me. Just my experience but I have never had success with self feeding. I, like Jim, monitor my dogs intake as closely as possible through-out the season. I use the simple method of being able to feel ribs easily but not see them, each animal is going to require differant amounts of feed and eventually you will find the correct amount for your dog. In the fall when I am hunting hard 4 or more days a week I keep peanut butter and honey on hand and this is added to thier feed at the end of each day. The honey provides a quick and easily metabolized source of energy and the peanut butter is loaded with protien to boost the protien levels in the food aiding in a quicker recovery for the next hunt. During late spring and early summer while training I carry Gatorade for them as protection from electrolite loss. (An old vet in South Dakota told me to try it) It does seem to help!
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bounce
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Post by bounce on May 12, 2006 13:02:38 GMT -5
Like I said donnie it's the most difficult.
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