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Post by twomoons on Dec 16, 2007 21:59:03 GMT -5
I just dropped another deer with a round ball from a muzzleloader, as opposed to a front loading cartridge gun, and I will offer the following observations...
A 5o caliber round ball pushed by 80 grains of FFg black powder will shoot through both sides of a buffalo at 80 yards. Accuracy at 100 yards with iron sights will be as good as you can see and the right load in a good rifle will run under 3". The round ball in passing through a light animal like a deer will leave a large exit wound and bleeds them out very handily. A bullet on the other hand tends to overpenetration and leave for the most part a small exit wound. Having, in the last 30 years dropped a lot of deer with a round ball I see no reason for using a bullet for hunting out to 125 yards or so. I see no reason for shooting a deer over 125 yards away. Too many folks listen to hype from poor hunters and people who have a thing to sell ( He who has a thing to sell, and goes and whispers in a well. Be not so apt to get the dollars, as he who climbs a tree and hollers. George Herter 1963). As I hunt this year and see all the folks getting beat to death from the recoil of a 400 grain bullet and 150 grains of powder I wonder how our forefathers ever managed to kill everything on the N/A continent for 150 years with just the poor round ball. So get you a real muzzleloader and a round ball and practice.
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Post by deputydon on Dec 16, 2007 22:07:28 GMT -5
What he said!!!!! Again I hate to beat an old horse but............ Practice,PRACTICE, practice!!!! Thats the key to hunting AND scoring!!!!
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Post by Jack on Dec 17, 2007 2:24:06 GMT -5
I use a real muzzleloader- if you call a cheap CVA a real muzzleloader. It is a traditional type in 50 caliber.
I do shoot roundballs at the range, and when I occasionally take the ML out for small game.
For deer, I've always used a Minie Ball. When I got the ML, a friend loaned me a Lee mold for the Minie ball and recommended it, so that's what I used.
The Minie ball seems to make a good sized exit hole on a broadside shot, and if you hit shoulder, it appears to expand at least a little. I can't be sure as I haven't recovered one yet. But, since it's worked quite well, and I can cast them for essentially nothing, I'm reluctant to change.
One of these days I'll have to try the roundball on a deer.
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Post by Purebred Redneck on Dec 17, 2007 10:13:56 GMT -5
I've always found the round ball to be very effective.
When I used those for deer, it was 75 grains from the 50 cal.
One thing I did notice was that there wasn't an exit hole about half the time. You'd find a round piece of lead about the size of a quarter right underneath the hide. Round balls shot about 4" groups at 50 yards.
So eventually I went to a Hornady great plains with 90 grains. Accuracy was great to 50 yards. After 50 yards you would struggle to hit a paper plate and at 100 yards you could not.
So I swtiched to something a little more accurate. So I'm using a full caliber sabot/bullet now that will hit a clay bird at 100 every time.
My rifle is a 1:48.
The next one I get will be a 54cal in a ball twist.
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Gila
Grand Member
and a Vernier sight. It's marked up to twelve-hundred yards. This one shoots a mite further.
Posts: 622
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Post by Gila on Dec 17, 2007 11:23:09 GMT -5
I shoot a round ball in one of my muzzleloaders. It is a .54 Cal and I use 90g Pyrodex Select. It will not pass through a Bison at any distance though. This I am sure of. I did kill the #1 SCI muzzleloading record Javelina with that load combination mentioned above at maybe 40 yards. Worked OK for that. Killed a couple of Muleys with it too, but again I am quite sure the round ball I was shooting wouldn't pass through a Bison at any distance. One Muley was a pass through through the ribbs right behind the shoulder as you are supposed to. The second muley I killed with it was hit as he was facing directly at me. I hit him at about 30 yards through the lower part of the neck and the ball went into the chest cavity and simply stopped anly about one ten inches to a foot of penetration. The animal ran off with no blood trail what-so-ever. I did find him about seventy-five yards away about 15 minutes later under a tree in real bad condition and I finished him off with a shot into the neck from the side. I am sure that the balls I was shooting would not pass through a Bison at any distance. These balls would expand somewhat though. Accuracy isn't too bad with my .54 Cal. It is scoped and I get 1 to 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards. Not too bad. I will not shoot the muzzleloader at an animal at distances over about 70 yards. There just isn't enough penetration in my opinion.
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Post by klsm54 on Dec 17, 2007 11:25:51 GMT -5
The main problem with round balls seems to be that there are few "off the shelf" rifles made for them...  The box store gun suppliers, CVA, Traditions, T/C, and the likes supply the vast majority of their rifles with rifling, and twists, tailored to conical projectiles. For many years Pennsylvania was a "round ball only" state. A lot of gun makers were making "Pennsylvania" models with deep cut rifling and 1-60" or 1 in 66" twists, just for round balls. But sadly PA started allowing conicals and even,  sabots. Now with no round ball states left, the gunmakers are catering to the conical crowd. But there are still round ball guns out there, just not at Wally World...  And of course if you want to shoot round balls, there are plenty of aftermarket barrels that will do the trick. Lyman is still true to the traditionalists with it's Great Plains Rifle in 50 and 54 caliber, but sadly, factory round ball guns seem to becoming a rarity, especially for those who buy their muzzleloaders at the MegaLo Mart.... |
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Post by Jack on Dec 17, 2007 11:43:26 GMT -5
That's a good point about twist rates, Klsm. I think the average guy is going to have a hard time finding a ML with a 1-66 twist these days, without forking over some heavy $'s (do I sound like Red?).
Most of the off the shelf stuff I see these days, of the traditional type, is 1-48 twist. And the inlines are something like 1-28, for sabots.
My ML is 1-48, and FWIW, shoots the Minie Ball more accurately than the patched roundball.
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Post by deputydon on Dec 28, 2007 16:00:37 GMT -5
I used a .440 round ball on my deer this year. It wasn't perfect but it got the job done. But you wouldn't dare use a sabot in a 150+ year old gun. Roundball the only way...
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Post by Jack on Dec 28, 2007 17:10:00 GMT -5
No, using a sabot in a 150 year old gun wouldn't be right. Especially a plastic sabot.
The sabot idea isn't all that recent, though. A lot of Civil War artillery ammunition had a sabot attached, although not quite the same way sabots are used in in lines- the sabot (as it was called) didn't make sub caliber projectiles fit the bore. The Civil War sabots were used to make full diameter projectiles align in the bore better.
Seems to me that's misusing the word sabot, but that's what they were labeled back then.
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bounce
Royal Member
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Post by bounce on Feb 4, 2008 17:40:04 GMT -5
Yeah I have a .69 cal sabots rifle They called minnie ball back when. Not shure when it was made but in Belgum about 1855 or so? Just do not use it enough to take hunting but it does shoot nice and accurate one just needs to pratice with it a bit and long shots like 200yds and more could be made. I just us it to show off makeing slaw out of large cabbage heads.
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Post by jimiowa on Feb 4, 2008 18:31:59 GMT -5
The 45 I'm building is a ball twist Green Mountain barrel.
If I ever go to conicals it will probably be an English Sporting rifle with a conical twist. They do have style and grace ;D
The Rigby still holds some long range records.
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Post by deputydon on Feb 4, 2008 18:37:49 GMT -5
The 45 I'm building is a ball twist Green Mountain barrel. If I ever go to conicals it will probably be an English Sporting rifle with a conical twist. They do have style and grace ;D The Rigby still holds some long range records. Excellent choice in a barrel Jim!!! green Mountain makes a GOOD barrel. |
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The box store gun suppliers, CVA, Traditions, T/C, and the likes supply the vast majority of their rifles with rifling, and twists, tailored to conical projectiles.
sabots. Now with no round ball states left, the gunmakers are catering to the conical crowd.
And of course if you want to shoot round balls, there are plenty of aftermarket barrels that will do the trick. Lyman is still true to the traditionalists with it's Great Plains Rifle in 50 and 54 caliber, but sadly, factory round ball guns seem to becoming a rarity, especially for those who buy their muzzleloaders at the MegaLo Mart.... 
