accuracy

[plainsman]

Hello, I have really enjoyed reading the comentary from you veterans of this sport.
I was wondering if anyone might have some ideas of what may be causing my rifle to spray shots all over the place. I have a Lyman Great Plains .54. I have taken several deer with it and always thought it was very accurate, however last year I quit hunting with it because it began grouping about like my tee shots. Some history regarding how this gun has been treated. I use only natural cleaners and lubes, have seasoned the barrel well enough that I can shoot it at least 7 shots between any swabbing, clean it after each hunt (I shoot the last load), use FFg Triple 7, Remington gold .530 round balls. I have tried several charges all the way from 70 grains to 110 and have experimented with .15 and .18 prelubed patches. I use a bench for testing and at 50 yards it will not group under 18". I really like this gun and want to figure out what is causing the problem. It is a 1 in 60 twist. When I ram a ball in and extract it to see what the rifling is doing there are no rifling marks on the ball even though with a light I can see there is ample rifling, as good as when it was new. (7 years old)
Thanks

[bounce]

I think this is pretty simple? Put in a new niple. allso for further help stop useing Triple 7 and use black powder FFg

[Bill]

Bounce pretty well nailed it. When I was shooting compatition I would put in a new nipple every time. Never used the old one again except for hunting. I looked at it as cheap insurance.
Another thing is, "how hard is it to load the gun" ?? if it loads REAL easy it might be that the barrel is getting warn. I always shot a tight patch as it seemed to group a lot better than did a loose patch for me.
Another thing is this, patch lube. Some patch lubes should be used to grease the tractor and then it probably wouldn't be all that good. Track of the wolf sells some Young Country 103 lube thats awsome and all I use anymore. There are also a couple home brews that work good too but for the most part I stick with the 103.
And Finally, get rid of the crap. Loose the tripple seven. Its not working. You already have proof of that. Go buy some decent Goex, Elephant, Swiss powders. 2ffg and work up a load thats right for the gun. You do all that and it won't be shooting those 17" or whatever groups for you anymore. ;D

[Purebred Redneck]

I'm going to take a different approach as I've never had a nipple determine accuracy.

I'm thinking it's got to be one of two things
1. components
2. the barrel

If you're using the same loads as ussual, then it could be an actual problem with the particular can of powder or bullets. If you have shot 777 in the past then I'd stick with it. I suspect it would be the bullets as I bought a box of remingtons one time. Some of the balls were shaped like triangles, octigons, pentagons, and sqaures You get the idea Perhaps some hornady balls will solve the problem.

Now, number 2.
If you didn't shoot the gun for a year, there's a chance the bore rusted - especially down at the bottom.
I'd take a good cleaner and a brush attachment to it. Not the muzzleloader cleaners either - I'd do the industrial/automotive cleaners.

[bounce]

Well you heard of it now Red. plainsman just put in a new good quality niple 1st, and then if needbe go to others. The Young Country 103 lube is a very goodone to use all the time and very helpfull but your problem is most likely the niple.

[klsm54]

If it were me, after all the new nipples, cleaning etc., I'd still try a can of Blackpowder. Seldom will you find a frontstuffer, especially a good roundball gun like the Lyman, that won't shoot better groups with Goex or Swiss than any of the replacement powders.

[twomoons]

I would check a couple of things...
#1 is the hook breech tight? If you can more the barrel back and forth at all you have problems. If the barrel moves the hook needs to be re set, this is simple but you will need to e mail for instructions as it involves pictures. #2 Put in a new nipple. Once the hole opens up past a cretian point you get erratic ignition and gas seal. #3 777 Black powder has an explosive effect when it goes off and it will tend to slug up the projectile in the bore and this compensates for a loose patch ball fit. As far as I know 777 is what you see if you are winning at the slots. Use a pure lead ball and a good hunk of patching. Use a short starter to seat the ball just below the muzzle and pull it back out. Ideally for hunting you will see the weave of the cloth imprinted on the ball where the rifling hits, if not you need a bigger ball or tighter patching, measure your patching as ticking comes in several thicknesses and sometimes the package of pre cuts are not on spec. Those are the easy fixes, now for the baddies...
If you have used a ramrod without a guide to clean yo may have worn a defect into the barrel. To fix this you need to cut off an inch or so of barrel and re crown and be more carefull next time. You may not have completely seated a ball and slightly ringed the barrel. Put on a tight fitting oiled patch and push it down the bore any skips, jumps or drags may indicate a problem with the barrel. Then if you gun has a coil spring there is the dreaded weak spring, this will throw off the ignition and won't hold the pressure the same for every shot. Any indications of the hammer coming off the nipple during firing is an indicator. Is the cap still in place when you go to reload? Last but not least check for swelling or lumps where you might have been bitten by the flinch bug. They are sneaky critters and their effects are most evident with muzzleloaders.

[Purebred Redneck]

I think we're ignoring something with the powder.

If the triple 7 have shot good groups in the past with a specific load, patch, and bullet --- it should continue doing so assuming their is not a defect in the lot of patches, balls, powder etc.
Blaming the powder is not the answer when that powder has produced excellent results in the past.

It's another problem - not the powder
Now would it shoot better with other powders after he gets the current problem solved - that's something different altogether and I'll go along with it.

[jabba]

I like 777 powder... but by all accounts I am a heathen, inline shooting, neanderthall that deserves whatever piss poor performance Karma sees fit to burden me with. Of course, I use an inline, scope, 209 primers, and sabots, not round balls. But, I do use BIG 450 grain solid lead sabots.

Jabba

[twomoons]

The ONLY reason I mentioned the powder is that even with a loose ball and patch a B/P load will still shoot better than 18". If the 777 shot before with this same combo then there are problems elewhere, but having no experience with 777 I don't know how it will react to a shot out nipple, or a weak spring.
Jabba
Don't feel too bad Ihave a friend who looks down on me because I have to carry a ctg. gun at work. He thinks a cap and ball should be good enough and a flinter would be perfect.

[jabba]

I don't feel bad man. I am a Libertarian, so my whole philosophy is that there is room for everyone to do THEIR thing. So, when anyone wheezes on MY gig, it does not affect my mood at all.

The buddy harassing you for carrying a cartridge gun at work is pretty funny man. We all do what's right for us.

I'd like a nice .54 or .58 round ball gun too. I justy have not made it a priority yet.

Jabba