Gray/Black Powder weight/density

[dakota]

I have a couple of cans of old powder that can be shot in my muzzle stuffer. One is Goex 2f and the other is Pyrodex RS. These cans have been well sealed but are probably 20 to 30 years old. The Pyrodex shoots well and accurately. I have experiemented a bit with that. I am planning on using the Goex for hunting, unless I come across a dealer that sells the stuff, then I will use new.

I thought the weight of black/gray powder was fairly standard.
I lost my first BP powder measure so I tried to order through Midway. The two best powder measures (IMO) for BP were out of stock. They had a CVA easy loader that has something they call a measure. I filled Goex 2f to the 90 grain line and then weighed the stuff - 99 grains. I removed powder until it was exactly 90 grains by the RCBS scale and poured the BP into the measure, it said 80 grains or a hair above.

To be fair to CVA, this is not a measure in the full sense, IMO it is designed for speed loading.

If I don't get a good measure before hunting season, I suspect I will fill speed loaders with weighed charges. I have quite a few speed loaders so that should not be a problem. But I will also look for a better measure.

Finally, I will get to the question I originally wanted to pose.
How consistant is the weight of BP? Is Elephant, Goex, Swiss etc. all about the same density? How about 1F to 3F is that about the same density?

2f seems about right for my muzzle stuffer. I suspect that the 45-90 will require the same stuff.

[twomoons]

B/P and Pyrodex are calculated by volume not weight. When you find a load that workks with B/P then just use the same measure for your Pyrodex. As to the graduations on the cheaper measures, they are more like reference lines. If you want a good accurate measure work up your load with a scale and then cut an antler tip to fit the load. A 45-70 case also works good if you are not hunting elephant, a full w/w case will hold roughly 82 grains of FFg elephant.

[dakota]

Thanks. I had heard the volume thing with the Pyrodex versus BP. What I thought was true regarding the weight/density of the BP threw me - i.e. the weight of BP corresponded to the scales on the measures. If I understand what you are saying they are just scales that loosely correspond to some volume - perhaps some English volume measurement a little smaller than a cubic centi-meter (definitely not english)? Thanks for the tip on the 45-70 and the antler, I had not thought of using those.

[twomoons]

What I am saying is that most of those measures have lines and numbers scribed on them and those lines and numbers really don't mean diddly squat. If you want to know for sure you need to weigh on a good scale and then set your measure accordingly. Be aware that a measure that throws 80 grains of FFg Elephant may be off as much as 4 grains when you switch to Swiss. All this makes very little difference with black as even a 1 or 2 grain variation will only show a 30fps variation. If you are shooting 80 grains of FFg and you accidentaly dump an extra shot you will increase pressure by about 6000 psi. In smokless if you vary 3 grains in some powders you can blow up a gun.

Now... when was the last time you set your scale with check weights? Scales need to be callibrated at least once a year as residue and bumping can throw them off. This is no biggie for B/P as a 1/10 variation should cause no problem, but if you work any max loads for smokeless you need check weights.

[dakota]

I hear what you are saying, thanks. I re zero often, almost every time, but I don't check with weights often. I do have weights to check it though.
I was in blissful ignorance on the scale on the measures. I thought that manufactures calibrated the lines for BP.

[dakota]

Well I tried several loads in an adjustable powder measure at the range. When I found the load that shot the best I went to the gun room and dug out some cases. Using the adjustable powder measure setting where the 54 shot best I tried filling these cases. The 45-70 case was very close in volume (a hair small in volume) and the 338 Win mag case and the 375 H&H case were next (too much volume in these last two cases). I will be using the 45-70 case for deer a powder measure on my 54 this Fall/Winter. Perhaps the 45-70 looks better in the possibles bag.

For a powder flask I have an old cattle horn, the pointy end is cut off and a small wooden plug is friction fit in it - I will use this end to pour powder into the case. The large end has a large wooden plug that is glued and nailed in. A hole is drill into the large wooden plug about .44 inch in diameter. I have a seperate plug for this hole -- friction fit. This hole is for filling the horn with powder. I have a leather strap that is long enough to go over the shoulder and tightens on the horn -- holding it securely.