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Finally
Nov 18, 2011 7:09:17 GMT -5
Post by deputydon on Nov 18, 2011 7:09:17 GMT -5
I hope Bill is having as much fun as I have been !!!! It does a body good to get out of the office and take some time off !!!!!!
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Finally
Nov 26, 2011 17:48:37 GMT -5
Post by twomoons on Nov 26, 2011 17:48:37 GMT -5
I got to thinking about this long range business and especially Bills 600 yard + deer. I was reloading some 223 for a planned dog hunt with a friend of mine and I got to thinking. There really isn't that much difference in accuracy requirments and learning curve trying to his a dog at 300-400 yards as there is to hitting a deer at 600+. If you think about it the target area is about the same size proportionatly a dog is say 4 inches high by 2" wide so you have a 2" circle to hit at 300 yards. A deer has an 8-10" Target to hit at 600 yards or more. Other than the extra drop and the fact that with a deer you need enough retained energy at the yardage the problems are quite similar. Now if you do like my frined and try for dogs in the 500 yard range dogs might just be a little harder to hit, if you didscount recoil and noise of the deer rifle. My friend took his loongest dog at 420 yards with a 204 ruger rifle last year. Now he hit a 2" square target at 400 yards with a rifle that shot 1/2" groups on average at 100 yards and was therefore capable of hitting in 3" at 400 yards. Bill hit a deer at under 700 yards and put his bulllet into a say 10" target with a rifle that at that range should be putting it's bulllets in under 4". A similar problem in my mind. Worst of all I am starting to appreciate Bill's mind set, I am figuring drop tables again and really shooting groups trying not to be embarrassed by sticking to the 100 yard shots. I had to dig out my Forester stuff so I can ream, uniform primer holes and all that stuff I did 40, my god 40, years ago when my goal was a 1/2" group and a 400 yard dog.
Thanks Bill now I had to put a 6x24 scope on my dog gun since a 2x7 probably won't do.
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Finally
Nov 27, 2011 9:26:17 GMT -5
Post by Bill on Nov 27, 2011 9:26:17 GMT -5
Two Moons. After you have done this enough, hitting at 500 - 600 yds becomes a chip shot. Pretty easily done. Its past that point that really becomes hard. I was out shooting about a month ago and we had another new guy come with us and he brought along another shooter who wanted to learn to shoot long. He was shooting a Savage HB 20" .308 with some kind of scope I hadn't heard of with all the dial's and gizmo's on it and MIL dot crosshairs etc. He was banging away at the targets when I got there. I grabbed my shooting pad and plopped down prone next to him and asked what we were shooting at. His comment was I'm trying to hit the 300 yd plate. It was 10X12" 5/8" cold rolled steel. I started calling his shots for him and got him dialed up for it finally and he finally started banging it. He rolled over finally and said "well its your turn" I dialed up the drop for 300 yds and tripped the trigger and was rewarded with a whop. He looked at me and said Hmm that didn't take you long. I just grinned and said nope. I did that all the way out to 700 yds which is where I run into trouble with the wind sometimes. It too him close to 10 rounds to get on with me calling the shots on drops and windage. I don't think he believed me some of the time as I don't think he dialed it right or something went wrong or one time he dialed the wrong direction. (Shhhh done that one too. ;D ) but I finally got him on the steel. He was having fun believe me. My chart was a bit off that day as I didn't dial enough drop. Partly due to a cold front that had come through and possibly a bit of me. When we moved to the 800 yd mark that is when trigger time really started to show. The kid had brought along 100 rounds of ammo with him. By this time he has shot up half of it. He had me go first and I dinged it after seeing how much extra I needed to dial in from the 700 yd mark but he was having a heck of a time. We had him dialed in but was spraying all around the target. I finally let him have at it and went and found my jug of coffee and watched while he shot and one of the other guys shot with him. He had never shot his gun past 100yds prior to that and even though his confidence level had raised considerably he fell apart at the 800 yd mark. I don't think he has gotten past that mark yet. But with all this said, from say 600 yd mark out that is where trigger time makes all the difference in the world. That and ammo and good optics and just plain working at it.
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Finally
Nov 27, 2011 13:44:01 GMT -5
Post by twomoons on Nov 27, 2011 13:44:01 GMT -5
Yeah I have dim memories of dog hunting and connecting with the long shots. Here there is almost no where to shoot over 300 yards. Geroge and I are working on a 300 yard range on one of his farms but will have to shoot almost straiight south to get that far. In addition I have had to get out loading equipment I havent used in a long time. Even in the dog town we are going to 450 is the longest shot we can take.
Now as to scopes when I started nobody trusted a variable scope for real accurate work and so I shot a 10x Weaver steel tube target scope. With it I could hit in those days a tomato can at 400 yards if it wasn't real windy. The 75 grain 243's I used would drift a lot in any real wind. Now I have a 6x24 scope on the 223 because I got it on sale and it works very well no poi changes up to 10x which is as far as I have ever dialed it. I don't have any bells and whitles jut a standard crosshair and when I get the right load worked up a drop card taped to the stock. Biggest problem I see is getting good enough shooting conditions to really test the loads as this Howa puts factory remingtons into 3/4" pretty regularand I figure I will need at least 1/2" to keep up.
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Finally
Nov 27, 2011 18:17:21 GMT -5
Post by jmarriott on Nov 27, 2011 18:17:21 GMT -5
My home gun club has a 2 lane 200 yard range now. I don't know if they could get a 300 yarder in the field of play.
Then again until the crops come in flat land Indiana has plenty of areas to shoot long distance. Then the crops make it a bit more of a challange. Then again those big steel plates would work well.
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Finally
Nov 28, 2011 8:42:52 GMT -5
Post by Bill on Nov 28, 2011 8:42:52 GMT -5
Two Moons. Give this load a try. LC Brass CCI Small Rifle BR primer 26 grains of H335 50 Nosler BT Fire form and neck size only. I use Lee Colet die. My record shot on PD's is 636 yds using this load in a box stock Rem 700 VS .223 with the only change a Jewell Trigger set at 2 lbs pull and the older 6.5X20X40 AO Leupold that was boosted by Premier Reticules to 14X35. with Keaton dials. Ya the scope isn't off the shelf but I have done as well with the standard 6.5X20 Leupy. In 4 different PD guns that load has shot 1/4" and you will find it right on the front of a can of H335. ;D
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Finally
Nov 28, 2011 11:56:59 GMT -5
Post by twomoons on Nov 28, 2011 11:56:59 GMT -5
By golly I think I have some H335 I will giveit a try. Thanks
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Finally
Dec 1, 2011 10:24:06 GMT -5
Post by twomoons on Dec 1, 2011 10:24:06 GMT -5
Uh MY can of 335 may be a little old all it says is buy Hodgens surplus powders, $3.25.
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Finally
Dec 1, 2011 15:26:03 GMT -5
Post by jimiowa on Dec 1, 2011 15:26:03 GMT -5
500-700 yds is doable with the .223. I've been to the Iowa 1000 yd clubs shoots(I believe Ernie has too) and seen the .223 shot at that range. Though that's pushing it. The rifles he shot against were retty much open and some of the best shooters in the midwest. My Savage 10FP has a 1-9 twist, which I'm told will stabilize the 75 grn A-max but I've yet to try it.
Two Moons I can think of no reason you could not get into the 500 yd Club with relative ease!
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Post by Bill on Dec 2, 2011 8:11:02 GMT -5
You might be a hoarder if your can of H335 says $3.95. Or is that a Red Neck. Oh well I forget. I just gave my shooting buddy a can of Winchester 231 that said $12.95 and had been unopened. ;D Shot great.
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Post by xphunter on Dec 2, 2011 9:22:53 GMT -5
Very, very true. Been a while since I have made it to Pella-Great folks there! 500-700 yds is doable with the .223.
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Post by Bill on Dec 3, 2011 8:10:15 GMT -5
Most of the guys that are shooting 1000 yds with a .223 are doing it with a rifle with a 1/7 twist and using bullets like the 75 and 80 grain JLK's which are a VLD bullet with a huge BC as compared to most of the bullets shot by the average .223 shooter. Like everything that fits within the laws of physics what starts slow slows slow and what starts fast slows fast. Those guys shooting those big .223 bullets are not getting them going very fast but they just don't slow down.
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