Whats it take to do it?

[Bill]

I was on another web site doing some looking around and noticed something kind of weird. A guy was telling about how he was using a .458 Barrel about 34"s long and using a sabot and a .375 cal 285 grain high BC bullet with a 1/14 twist was able to shoot a deer at 585 yards. I tried to find out more information on this but was unable to.
Question I have is this. Is it possible, using a traditional .45 cal ML and black powder which would probably have to be 3FFFg to make enough pressure to get a bullet that size moving fast enough and have enough energy to do this. Its probably a question that Two Moons will have to answer if he can and not to my knowledge has he or I ever worked on a gun like this or tried anything like it. Always been round ball guns. I have a friend of mine that I was telling about this and he got very interested and would like to try it. He thinks it would make one heck of an elk rifle.

[Jack]

In a purely theoretical sense, it's probably possible.
Take a look at an old Trapdoor Springfield in 45-70. The rear sight is graduated to 2000 yards, using the original black powder round nose bullet load at 1300 or so fps. . .
And the bullets would go that far. I recall reading of how they tested to get the graduations correct, a long time back. Large sheets of paper were laid flat on a beach on Long Island (tells you it was a long time ago) and the rifles were fired at measured ranges. The trajectory was so high the bullets were hitting the horizontal sheets of paper on the way down, sort of like a mortar.
Now, as to your scenario of a .375 bullet in a .45 barrel (you didn't say if BP was the propellent), color me skeptical.
Remember, all rifles on the internet shoot sub one inch groups, no one ever misses, and ranges need to be divided by a factor of 2 or 3.

[twomoons]

Actually Pyrodex pellets should give you the velocity as they burn better than black. FFFG might not do as well in any reasonalble load. The Long Beach tests were to determine penetration and maximum range of the 45-70 with the then NEW 500 grain bullet. It was determined that the new bullet at 1650 yards would penetrate 2" of pine wood and would, "Therefore kill at any reasonable range". The idea for a sabot bullet would be to flatten the trajectory to enable hits at unknown ranges, this was the big failing of the 45-70 if you mis judged the range by as little as 50 yards past 400 yarfds you might miss a deer size target. Right now Savage has a smokless M/L that will do the job at 300 yards plus with about the same drop as a 30-06 so going another 200 yards could be done, but if Bill builds one of these CONTRAPTIONS he ain't doing it here!!!!

[jmarriott]

With a 34 inch barrel it would restrict the areas i hunt and I might have to get a golf club cart to carry it in the field.

I shot at 238 steps this year and missed, I hate holding over something to hit it, Give me that shot again and knowing it was 80 steps further away than I had figured, I think i could have made it,

[bounce]

Bill basicly you could use a navy arms Rigby style rifle and do the same thing. Not shure I am remebering the name right , but the .42 or .43 hex style bullet 1860's -70s target / sniper rifle from England. Or do I have to look in a book and jog my memory for you? Witworth may be the name I'm trying to remeber. I never have shot one but do know they are tremendos fine shooters from everything I have ever heard. Always wanted one just never liked the price. Don't think anyone in are club ever had one but seen them down by Freemont at shoots. At least you would not be shooting a screwed up gun from the get go. And you like the britts

[Bill]

Whitworth would be correct Bounce. Knew a guy that had an original one at one time. Said it shot very well. Thats along the line of what I was talking about except that rather than shooting an octagonal bullet it would be shooting a sabot/bullet. The only other thing I gleaned from the other site was the fact that the guy was using a lathe turned sabot and a Hornaday bullet.

Now Two Moons, IF"n someone wanted a gun built with a fast twist barrel in a traditional style rifle are you saying you would turn him away?? ;D
Thats the catch to the whole thing, he wants a traditional style rifle and hates the looks of an inline. He hunts with me every fall and always uses a 12 bore SXS black powder shotgun. He don't get many but he does get some.

[twomoons]

Curt has been after me for the past two years to build him a Purdy rifle with a 1-18 twist in 40 caliber. If I do it I want to do it right and that means making the barrels and the false muzzle in one piece and rifling them together. A commercial barrel made that way will run about $300.00. However IF done right off a solid rest a rifle like this shot a 200 yard group that stood as a worlds record till the 1950's. 10 Shots at 200 yards in under an 1 1/4 if I remember right. It would be simpler just to make a smooth straight starting muzzle for the rifle but it would not be quite as accurate. I may do the Purdy style rifle just to try it out. It would look like DD's 62 only a 40 Cal quick twist barrel for say a 330 grain bullet at 1700 fps or so. It should be good to 300 yards at least.

[deputydon]

Jan 4, 2011 20:09:32 GMT -5 twomoons said:

Curt has been after me for the past two years to build him a Purdy rifle with a 1-18 twist in 40 caliber. If I do it I want to do it right and that means making the barrels and the false muzzle in one piece and rifling them together. A commercial barrel made that way will run about $300.00. However IF done right off a solid rest a rifle like this shot a 200 yard group that stood as a worlds record till the 1950's. 10 Shots at 200 yards in under an 1 1/4 if I remember right. It would be simpler just to make a smooth straight starting muzzle for the rifle but it would not be quite as accurate. I may do the Purdy style rifle just to try it out. It would look like DD's 62 only a 40 Cal quick twist barrel for say a 330 grain bullet at 1700 fps or so. It should be good to 300 yards at least.

Well my longest deer kill with my .62 thus far is 275 paces with Bill as a witness. The .62 was designed by Greg Roberts of early Muzzle loading barrel fame for me. And buildt by 2M's. It was designed with long range Elk hunting in the mountains in mind.......
BTW for those of you who know Greg I talked to him on the phone right before Christmas his health is fading fast...
Greg was one of those guys who was Muzzleloading when muzzleloading wasn't cool......

[Bill]

Wow, I tried to get a hold of him a couple years ago and could never get an an answer and just figured that something must of happened to him. Glad you were able to get in contact with him.