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Post by Bill on Feb 13, 2009 10:51:13 GMT -5
A couple of company's like L.C.Smith and A.H.Fox built guns that were 12 gauge in the chamber and 16 gauge in the barrel. They had a long taper bore and would throw a fairly tight pattern. I have always thought that it was possible that they were building card match guns in doing this but have always been told they were for trap guns. Its possible that the people telling me about them had never heard of a card match. Every now and then I will see one of these guns. Maybe 3 or 4 in the last 6 years and the guys owning them have absolutely no idea what they have and don't like them due to fact they shoot just too tight a pattern and can't hit birds with them. ;D Duh, when their choked that tight its like shooting a bird with a rifle.
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Post by jmarriott on Feb 13, 2009 11:02:41 GMT -5
That's why I thought that the vent rib trap barrel MIGHT have a chance of getting me somewhere in the 40's on the card but with a nice even pattern. It's a weird 32 inch factory barrel with XXF on one side and is choked much tighter than my full gauge barrel that is 28 inches. What it chokes down to I would have to brake out a choke guage or the calipers.
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Post by Bill on Feb 14, 2009 0:06:05 GMT -5
I have seen them on XXF choked down to as much as . 050. To get a true reading you need to mic the bore and then mic out the choke and subtract the choke from the bore and you then have the true choking. Hard to do unless you have a bore mic that goes down and measure's the bore. I have one and its worth its weight in gold sometimes. You can also make one by taking two flat pieces of metal about 1/16" thick and quarter inch wide and about 16"s long. Find the exact middle of both pieces and drill a hole through them both. Then slide them down the bore and open them up like a pair of scissors and measure them outside to outside. Works as good as my bore mic.
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Post by jimh on Feb 14, 2009 10:01:07 GMT -5
i just shake my head when i go to these local shoots and ask what rules they have (unlike outlaw shoots where there are none and it is even play). you always get the same responce, "we limit chokes down to .675" and we have a choke gauge that we will put all the way down the barrel". what a crock a shit. THEY NEVER, NEVER, check the inside bore. so you got all these normal everyday guys shooting their factory .728" bore guns with a extra full choke in it giving them .053" of constriction and they are blown out of the water because these other guys are shooting their mossbergs or custom barrel rig with an open bore of .780" or more and getting .105" of constriction. and these friggen knuckle heads running the damn thing shake their heads and just add the line"sometimes some guns just shoot real tight for no other reason". there is one shoot not too far from my house right now where alot of the guys have screw in chokes/barrel extentions. these barrels are about 36-38" long all finished. but the main original barrel is 22", and what they are doing is they are jug choking it. most of the barrel extention is opened up alot, the main barrel is more of a standard .728" then the extention is .785" and then at the end is their choke at .675" the explaination given is they like that shot column coming down the barrel to be given a bit of a shake right before going through the choke. the more fluid like the shot column the better it flows through the choke constriction. that means less damaged shot with flats on the sides which will cause the pattern to blow. the picture is like a funnel filled with fine sand, it will flow through the opening. now get the sand a bit larger and the sand does not act as fluid like and can not get rearange fast enough to keep a constant flow going out. but tap that funnel and it alows the sand to move around creating space to rearange and flow out. same principle these guys are doing with the jug choke meathod. the shot column opens up a tad for a brief moment right before entering the choke constriction. it alows the shot to rearange easier, in a more fluid like manner. then the trick is haveing the restriction (or degree of tapper) done over the proper length and then a good parallel section for it all to get in line with one another. add some straight rifling to the walls of the parallel section to keep the cup from rotating (some have the straight rifling for the length of their barrels) and some rings perpendicular to the wall of the choke on the inside to help grab the wad and sepperate it from the shotcolumn as it leaves the muzzle.
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Post by Purebred Redneck on Feb 14, 2009 10:07:00 GMT -5
i just shake my head when i go to these local shoots and ask what rules they have (unlike outlaw shoots where there are none and it is even play). you always get the same responce, "we limit chokes down to .675" and we have a choke gauge that we will put all the way down the barrel". what a crock a shit. THEY NEVER, NEVER, check the inside bore. so you got all these normal everyday guys shooting their factory .728" bore guns with a extra full choke in it giving them .053" of constriction and they are blown out of the water because these other guys are shooting their mossbergs or custom barrel rig with an open bore of .780" or more and getting .105" of constriction. and these friggen knuckle heads running the damn thing shake their heads and just add the line"sometimes some guns just shoot real tight for no other reason". I guess it would be too easy to check the winner's gun
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Post by jimh on Feb 14, 2009 10:28:35 GMT -5
Red, these guys don't get it. they think the only thing to make it even for everyone is to restrict the choke size. they will tell you with a straight face that if all of the shooters are shooting the same size choke then it is an even match. they should be limiting the amount of restriction. they should measure you inside bore dia, and then tell you what dia choke you can go down to. it doesn't bother me as i know how to compete with it. it's these other guys and their kids that get taken and don;t understand they are at a disadvantage.
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Post by jmarriott on Feb 14, 2009 12:21:59 GMT -5
open bore of .780". I wish I could get this done to my Cuts barrel. I would only use it but I need to barrel guage first to see what it is. I believe this cuts is a factory Remington barrel not one that was added post factory. I see no tell tale marks like on alot of the barrels with the cuts I have seen. Dad is a machinist he will come up with something.
the explanation given is they like that shot column coming down the barrel to be given a bit of a shake right before going through the choke. jug choking it. most of the barrel extension is opened up alot, the main barrel is more of a standard .728" then the extension is .785" and then at the end is their choke at .675"
Once again that cuts comp is real open in the middle of the barrel and allows some gas escape at that point. I good 5 inches of pickle on the end of the barrel. Now i want to start the extension with the choke. Sort of a jug type barrel.
XXF choked down to as much as . 050 I will have dad check this also. No chokes on this barrel it is old fashioned also. I do not own an adjustable choke gun but own a barrel for each choke other that skeet.
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Post by jimh on Feb 14, 2009 15:06:52 GMT -5
yep, those cutts comp were way ahead of their time. screw out replaceable chokes, and tha tlittle jump the shotcolumn got to do before getting choked.
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