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Post by Jack on Feb 8, 2008 22:17:42 GMT -5
I agree with Klsm- and would add that there are a number of people out there that flinch and are not aware of it, or will not admit it. I've seen that at the local range many, many times.
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Post by Bill on Feb 8, 2008 23:09:47 GMT -5
Red ;D I have a sever flinch. Don't make much difference what caliber it is either. I have learned to control it though. Sometimes not so well and at other times well enough you can't tell it. Its all in how hard I can concentrate. I actually shoot better with the big calibers sometimes than I do with the smaller ones. Oh and I hate the .270 Win in my 700 ADL as its a mule. ;D
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Gila
Grand Member
and a Vernier sight. It's marked up to twelve-hundred yards. This one shoots a mite further.
Posts: 622
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Post by Gila on Feb 10, 2008 9:33:45 GMT -5
The cartridge chambering doesn't always dictate the amount of recoil a rifle will have. Let me rephrase this, the particular chambering the rifle usually has less to do with the felt recoil than the stock design, weight of the rifle, quality of recoil pad, how well the rifle is bedded, or if it has a muzzlebrake or not, just to mention a few of the variables. I have a little light weight Savage 110 chambered for .270 Win. that kicks the crap out of me and my .338 Imperial doesn't hit me hard at all. One of the hardest kicking rifles I ever shot was a Ruger M77 chambered for the little 7mm Rem. Mag cartridge. That thing beat me up trying to get it sighted in. Later figured out it was sighted in, it just didn't shoot that accurately. Point is, a lot of people use recoil for an excuse to use inferior cartridges on a lot of big game in my opinion. I am a believer that anyone can learn to shoot the larger caliber rifles well if they wanted to. I think people have a tendency to convince themselves of something without any first hand experience a lot of times. I know I'm guilty of that many times. Sorry guys, but recoil isn't decent excuse for using a rifle that is chambered for a cartridge that is too small for a particular animal in my opinion. Sorry....
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bounce
Royal Member
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Post by bounce on Feb 10, 2008 11:38:20 GMT -5
The only tme I have ever felt I may have ben close to being under guned, is when I go pigon hunting with my 1871 muzzel loaded BB gun. I can get them but some fly away. The charge is a no. 11 cap & a .177 pellet. Never hunted bear or elk wth that one.
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Post by 340wby on Feb 10, 2008 18:41:22 GMT -5
while you may not like being hit with the force of recoil and I while fully agree that stock design, rifle weight and accessories effect the felt recoil Im forced to point out that you can easily learn to significantly reduce felt recoil thru the use of some well proven but frequently ignored or overlooked accessories and knowing HOW to shoot a rifle correctly.
first a SLING should almost always be used and its wrapped around the forward arm and the strap firmly across the chest, that distribute the recoil force over the whole upper body vs the shoulder alone, next a PAST RECOIL PAD sewn into the shooting vest and a larger thick recoil pad installed on the rifle stock can do an immense amount to disipate the felt recoil.
next, a correctly sized bi-pod installed on the rifle tends to promote the correct handling of that rifle once you learn HOW to use one.
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Post by 340wby on Feb 10, 2008 19:00:56 GMT -5
BTW I know several guys who are far more recoil sensitive than I am, whos only reason that they don,t use a larger caliber is thier tendency to flinch when useing one or thier reluctance to admit that they would like too use something differant but feel like the added recoil levels go up far faster that the increase in effective hitting power with the larger calibers. ( WE all have a differant tollerance level,I know that anything larger than my 378 WBY requires me to concentrate to prevent flinching a bit after a box or so!) while you may not like being hit with the force of recoil and while I fully agree that stock design, rifle weight and accessories effect the felt recoil, and in some cases its the NOISE not the recoil that causes flinching, Im forced to point out that you can easily learn to significantly reduce felt recoil thru the use of some well proven but frequently ignored or overlooked accessories and knowing HOW to shoot a rifle correctly. first a SLING should almost always be used and its wrapped around the forward arm and the strap firmly across the chest, that distribute the recoil force over the whole upper body vs the shoulder alone, next a PAST RECOIL PAD sewn into the shooting vest and a larger thick recoil pad installed on the rifle stock can do an immense amount to dissipate the felt recoil. next, a correctly sized bi-pod installed on the rifle tends to promote the correct handling of that rifle once you learn HOW to use one. then theres always those recoil reduction muzzle brakes if nothing else can reduce the felt recoil to levels your comfortable with.(especially if you use hearing protectors or hearing amplification with a DB limiter) www.fulton-armory.com/slinguse.htmwww.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000806503XLwww.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00094330110www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00077PA0600CSwww.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0001001382the basic bottom line here is that if you want to use a rifle with a bit more recoil than your used too useing YOU can find a way to do so without beating yourself up provided you WANT to LEARN HOW and are willing to take advantage of the available technology, and IM NOT in any way suggesting you NEED or will be more effective with a larger caliber, only that in a few cases guys who would like to use something larger have not looked thru all thier optionsIve got one good friend that refused for many years to shoot my 35 whelen, because he was told it kicked like a mule, by a guy he worked with, when I finally did get him to try one he was amazed at the low level of recoil, and eventually bought one for himself. |
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Post by klsm54 on Feb 10, 2008 19:48:14 GMT -5
I know this will shock some of you, but I agree with 340Wby...  ;D ;D Good proof of adapting to handle heavy recoil is in the thread "The nine year old and the big bad bear." If a 9 year old girl can shoot a 375 H&H, effectively, I'm certain I could adapt also. That doesn't change the fact that I'll never be a supporter of magnums, especially the severely overbored behemoths. But if circumstances were different, and I found myself hunting big bears or African game, I'd buck up and learn to handle, and tame, the stiff recoil of a magnum. And today, with all kinds of aids to lessen the felt recoil, it would be easier than ever. But I'll always be a big fan of non-magnum calibers. I'd rather carry a 35 Whelen on a moose or elk hunt that a 338 Winchester, just the way I think...  I'm not saying the Whelen is a better choice, just that it would be my choice. |
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Post by WyoStillhunter on Feb 12, 2008 23:56:27 GMT -5
I have no idea what gun writers know or don't know. It's a fact that they can't make a living writing articles titled, "the 30-06 is all the gun you need if you know how to hunt" season after season. Advertising revenue drives all media industries. When a market is saturated, like with 30-06 rifles, it's time to sell the "next new thing." Keep writing about the '06 and you are out of a job.
Bill is right. It's more about how you use the gun you have than it is about the gun itself. If I were willing to risk getting skunked once in a while I could kill alot of elk with my Revelation 200 (Western Auto Stores house-brand Marlin 336) in 30-30 with factory sights. But I don't want to pass up a "trophy meat" elk, even every so often, so I carry an '06, 35 Whelen, or lately, a .444 Marlin. They all have plenty of power and I can shoot them well.
I can hunt pretty much every day of the local 15-day season, if needed. But in recent years I have rarely gone past Day #3 without tagging a nice eatin'-size elk. After all, you never know when a freak storm will blow in and make the roads impassable, ending the season prematurely.
So why take a chance? Use a rifle you can shoot well, with enough power to allow confidence with less-than-perfect shot angles, and hunt hard until your tag is filled. Then quarter, bag, and haul it out while the gettin' is good.
Last Fall my wife and I backpacked my raghorn out of the timber the day after I shot it. The road was really greasy going in that morning. Even with 4WD we could have easily ended up in the borrow pit. It was sunny, it snowed, it was sunny again, it snowed, it blew, etc. The only thing it didn't do that day was rain. By the time we pulled out and drove the 12 miles to blacktop the road was fine. The next day there was no way I would have driven back in there. The following week was fine. Such is life.
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Post by deputydon on Feb 13, 2008 7:42:40 GMT -5
WyoStillhunter; I take it you don't own horses ? I always hauled mine with me from Nebraska to whichever state I was hunting in. Saved me alot of wear and tear !!
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Post by WyoStillhunter on Feb 13, 2008 11:36:23 GMT -5
Nope, just quarter bags, pack frame, and Leki poles. It takes five loads to get an elk out of the woods.
On a typical hunt I will "quarter" and set up the carcass at the time of the kill. I usually cut open the carcass from chin to anus, eviscerate, and cut off the head. Then without skinning I cut off the four legs and lay them up on deadfalls/logs to air. If I can move it by myself I drag the backbone/loin-rib cage-neck onto some logs also. Then I take the tenderloins, heart, and liver out of the woods.
Depending on the time of day and the distance from the kill to the road I either go home for the night or grab the frame pack (with quarter bags, knives, rope, etc.) and head back to the carcass. There I do a little more clean up and trimming. I might also cut off the ribs an cut the loin/backbone in half (crosswise). Then everything gets bagged and hung up as high as I can get it. Last season I even lashed a crosspole between two trees to hang the bags. One load comes out when I return to the truck. Even on an early morning kill that is about all that gets done "the day of."
Next day I take out the other four loads. It's nice if I can get someone to go along for the hike and help carry out. That way it is only two round trips and we're finished. Typical distance to the road has never been more than about two miles, one way. Most usually it's about two miles for a round trip. Most hunters in my area don't get more than 1/2 mile off the road. So if I go another 1/2 mile I have the place to myself.
I've never had meat fooled with by anything bigger than a raven although there are coyotes, mountain lions, and a few black bears in the area. If I have to leave the carcass laying out, not in quarter bags, overnight, I cut plenty of little "christmas trees" and pile on the meat to keep the birds off. I didn't do that on a mule deer once and the ravens had a pretty good feast on the exposed hams and tenderloins. No big deal but I felt pretty stupid for letting it happen. Afterall, when I take what I want there is still plenty of snacks for the birds and critters.
At home I hang the meat bags in a cat-proof dog pen that serves no other purpose except to protect meat. There hasn't been a dog in the pen for 7 or 8 years. Butchering takes place in the garage. Meat is vacuum packed using a FoodSaver machine and goes right into the freezer. If I get an animal early in the week it is usually Friday night or Saturday before I cut it up.
As we speak there is some 2006 mule deer loin in the fridge, thawed and ready to cook tonight.
Nope, no horses as long as my knees hold out.
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;D ;D Good proof of adapting to handle heavy recoil is in the thread "The nine year old and the big bad bear." If a 9 year old girl can shoot a 375 H&H, effectively, I'm certain I could adapt also.
I'm not saying the Whelen is a better choice, just that it would be my choice.
