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Post by 340wby on Sept 10, 2005 23:30:04 GMT -5
have you ever shot a deer and got no noticable reaction? years ago I had it happen several times Ive shot several deer over the years that just stood there after being hit, the first time I was getting ready to fire a second time, just as the deer folded. shot totally destroyed the heart? several other times I was totally sure of my shot placement, and just waited.........the deer folded like a slowly deflating baloon? twice were shots into the area over the heart, once was a hit in the lungs/and liver (rakeing angle) all were shot with a 300 grain 338 bullet used for ELK hunting, THAT bullet acts like a solid, with little expansion on targets as light as deer, but works very effectively on ELK
how about you guys??? ever seen that happen?
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Post by Purebred Redneck on Sept 11, 2005 23:29:38 GMT -5
All the deer I've shot with centerfire rifles have either collapsed never to get up, or else were lifted completly off their feet before running.
I've shot a few deer with the muzzleloader that just did something like a noticable flinch or jerk.
But no, I have not shot one that gave NO reaction
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Post by calsibley on Mar 23, 2006 13:43:59 GMT -5
Hello 340wby,
It sounds like it couldn't move, totally immobilized until the legs also give way, and it drops. That 300gr. bullet must be brutal on their system. It just can't function in any capacity at all. How much meat do you usually lose on one hit with that size bullet? Best wishes.
Cal - Montreal
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Post by dakota on Mar 23, 2006 14:08:35 GMT -5
I saw my brother shoot an elk 4 times and then the elk fell. All four shots were in the heart area (perhaps a 3" group). He was using a 300 Win Mag and heavy Nosler Partitions. That elk showed no signs of being hit until it fell. I suspect that if he would have hit the Bull in the shoulders it would have fallen on the first shot. He now uses a .375 H&H for elk.
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bounce
Royal Member
Posts: 5,727
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Post by bounce on Mar 23, 2006 18:58:14 GMT -5
Yes it's a good sign, unless their a pet, If you miss I garrentee you will see movement!! But I guess just to be shure a biger big gun is the FIXall
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Gila
Grand Member
and a Vernier sight. It's marked up to twelve-hundred yards. This one shoots a mite further.
Posts: 622
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Post by Gila on Sept 10, 2006 7:54:44 GMT -5
I have seen that happen many, many times when I was an outfitter and guiding hunters. I have personally had it happen to me several times when I have shot big game as well. On elk, that is commonplace. A large number of elk hunters use moderate weapons for elk hunting based on what they read. I have read numerous articles that claim cartridges as small as a .270 Win are adaquate for Elk, some articles even claim smaller cartridges are adaquate. This does seem to be the case if everything is perfect and the animal cooperates.. lol Elk can be sepecially hard to put down at times. Bears can be the same way. It's interesting how some critters just don't go down sometimes. It's also interesting how well a cartridge/bullet combination works on one species and doesn't necessarily work well on another even if the critters are the same basic size. For instance, in my experience, it seems a whitetail is much more fragile constructed than a muley. This does not mean the muley is tougher to kill, but from what I've seen, they take an completely different rifle/bullet combination to achieve the same effect. For example, my favorite rifle/cartridge combination for Muleys is my 25-06 AI loaded with 115g Nosler Partitions. I have used this combination on a large quantity of Muleys as well as Ibex, sheep, goats, and just about everything else imaginable in the medium sized big game range. When I have used it on whitetails, the bullet would just zip right through the animals with little damage every time. I have had hunters attempt to use their 243s on Muleys with extremely poor results, but the cartridge seems to work quite well on whitetails of about the same size. Go figure! Picking a particular rifle/cartridge combination for a given species can be tough at times and sometimes you find you may not have made the best choice. I have found it's better for someone to use what works for them.
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Post by dakota on Sept 10, 2006 8:15:57 GMT -5
You may have hit on something GM. I like a 30-06 with 180 grain hornadys for deer. Sometimes I will have an any-deer license and can shoot either a muley or whitetail. (and of course the deer I shoot are all trophies - LOL) But I suppose I might have a rifle that is more than what some would choose. On either species though that combo works excellent at least for me. Do you suppose the whitetail are over killed? (Whatever that means.)
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Gila
Grand Member
and a Vernier sight. It's marked up to twelve-hundred yards. This one shoots a mite further.
Posts: 622
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Post by Gila on Sept 10, 2006 8:22:27 GMT -5
I don't know if that is exactly true, but it seems to me that a lighter constructed bullet in may calibers might possibly work better in a lot of whitetail hunting circumstances. That's just my opinion, and that might not even be the answer, but it seems that way to me.
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Post by Bill on Sept 10, 2006 9:24:04 GMT -5
I have had a number of deer just stand their after I have shot them with my .25-06. Usually its when I have shot from a blind overlooking a feild where they are eating and they do not even know I'm there. Its like they totally lock up or something. The just stand there not moving and all of a sudden they fall over. One time I had shot a big doe and she just stood there. I knew she was hard hit and just put my gun down. Dad who was hunting with me thought I had missed and pulled up and shot it again in the butt with his .243 which all that did was knock it over. Ruined a bunch of meat. He said why didn't I shoot again. I said Because it was dead and didn't need to be shot again. ;D When we gutted it out the heart was totally gone. After that he quit shooting my deer if it didnt drop at the shot. I think that if a bullet hits a deer thats totally relaxed and eating and destroys the heart it shocks the system so much that the deer cannot move. Its actually dead on its feet. The first movement it makes puts it down though.
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Post by dakota on Sept 10, 2006 9:38:21 GMT -5
The Hornady's hang together and get good penetration. But they also open up with little resistance - never had one fail in either regard. Back in the ealry 70's I shot a doe with a rifle/load combo that I no longer recall. (it was probably a 30-06 or a 264) She took off like something bit her behind. She ran full tilt for 100 yards and slid for a ways after that. Her heart was no longer there - something like you said.
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Gila
Grand Member
and a Vernier sight. It's marked up to twelve-hundred yards. This one shoots a mite further.
Posts: 622
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Post by Gila on Sept 10, 2006 15:55:23 GMT -5
That's interesting. I have had problems with Hornaday bullets in the past and don't use them. I once shot a big bodied muley five timew with my 300 Win Mag at only fifty to seventy yards. I was shooting the 265g interlock. The bullets went through that ol' boy and never even opened up at all judging from the size of the tiney little exit holes. I had a similar thing happen when I used a 100g Hornaday spire point in my 25-06 Rem. The bullets entered and exited with the approximately the same sized holes. Both of my sons started hunting at a very early age. I built a little custom rifle based off of a Savage 340 and it was chambered for 30-30 AI. It was an ideal little rifle for them to learn to hunt with. The boys killed several muleys with it as well as pronghorns and javelinas using the neat little Sierra 135g Single Shot Pistol bullets. This rifle uses a clip so the use of smaller grain spitzers is not a problem. I once decided to try the 125g Hornaday spire point in it. What a disaster. My youngest son kept shooting this one little muley buck over and over and finally had to walk up to it and put one thhrough his head. The lettle bullets would travel completely through the buck and apparently never opened up one bit. I also had an elk hunter that was using 180g Hornadays in his 300 Win Mag. He shot a big bull twice and it ran off. Very little blood was ever found and we recovered the bull the next morning. all spoiled. The bullets left tiney little exit holes and the enternal organs looked like he shot it with armor piercing ammo. None of the many hunters I ever took hunting during the years I outfitted used Hornaday bullets except for that one guy. He swore to never do it again. It's possible that there were just freak accidents, but it seems unlikely to me. These are my observations. These are every single instance when I was around Hornaday bullets. No one I know of uses them at all. Now, as we were mentioning above, this might not be the case with another animal or ever with a different hunter or a different rifle. Could be that every time, the bullet size was wrong for the application. Don't have the answer.
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