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Post by Purebred Redneck on Oct 4, 2007 9:48:01 GMT -5
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Post by klsm54 on Oct 4, 2007 10:02:44 GMT -5
Well, you could have just taken twomoons offer and sent the gun to him. Then when you got it back it most likely would have been smoother operating, and better, than anything you are going to get off the shelf. And....it would have been cheaper than what you will end up spending. One thing though Red, I beg you, please buy a black powder revolver...PLEASE! ...  We are all SOOOOooooo looking forward to sharing the experience with you..... ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Purebred Redneck on Oct 4, 2007 10:07:59 GMT -5
And I would of spent more 50 dollars and maybe the problem would still be there. And then with the gun altered, then no one would want to return it. Yeah, I thought ahead on that one If you guys want me to buy a gun, I am taking up a collection as discussed last week  |
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bounce
Royal Member
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Post by bounce on Oct 4, 2007 11:06:21 GMT -5
Just makes you want to cry!!! To have one's hopes & dreams crushed so!!!! I feel your pain klsm54
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Post by twomoons on Oct 4, 2007 13:21:37 GMT -5
Red
You do what you want to do, but my work is guarenteed and if yo don't like it we take it back and fix it until you do. Every cap and ball revolver is going to have some little glitches as they are selling for almost nothing compared to a factory revolver. A S and W M10 new now runs over $500 and if it doesn't work right out of the box you have a right to complain. A cap and ball replica sells for $250 maybe and you can bet it will need some tuning before it handles like that $500 gun. That is a fact of life and you need to realize that you get what you pay for. If you go to the Cimmarron revolvers their Walkker is clost to $400 buck, but it is smooth, sighted right and had a 3# trigger right out of the box, that's why the extra money.
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Post by klsm54 on Oct 4, 2007 13:58:26 GMT -5
And I would of spent more 50 dollars and maybe the problem would still be there. And then with the gun altered, then no one would want to return it. Yeah, I thought ahead on that one If you guys want me to buy a gun, I am taking up a collection as discussed last week I don't know, Red. I never met twomoons, face to face, but you can get a pretty good feel for a guys character after hangin' around these forums with him for several years now. I'm bettin' that twomoons work is head and shoulders above some of the jokers you have dealt with down your way. Now twomoons has assured you that his work is guaranteed. I'm not sure what you are waiting for....  You have got to get this distrust of ALL gunsmiths out of your head. There are lots who do fantastic work, and a lot of them do it for a reasonable price too. Of course you have to realize that they do have to eat, so you can't expect them to spend 4 or 5 hours working on a gun for 20 bucks...  Of course there are lot's of guys out there who THINK they are gunsmiths. Owning a set of screwdrivers and a Harbor Freight lathe doesn't, in itself, make a guy a gunsmith. I think if you would start hangin' out with a better class of shooter, than the goons you're always tellin' us about, you would find some reputable 'smiths in your area. You will find that "good" gunsmiths don't need to advertise, repeat customers and word of mouth get them all the work they can handle....  Then of course when you find a good gunsmith, just like anybody who does good work for you, you need to treat him right. If he is doing good work, don't moan about what he charges. Might do you good, when he charges you $14.95 for some little job, that you tell him to keep the change from a twenty. And listen to him, don't go in his shop spouting stupid crap that some joker at the gravel pit told you about how to fix a gun, although that makes for a lot of laughs when you leave..... ;D Nobody likes to be told how to do his job by an outsider... |
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Post by Purebred Redneck on Oct 4, 2007 14:18:47 GMT -5
Let me clarify something
I in no way mean to question TM's work. I've heard too many good things about him here for that to be the case.
I was just simply saying that there may have been a true defect in the gun, one that may require a replacement factory parts or warrent a return of the gun. Anything a gunsmith does will void the warranty of the gun. Grant you, there are very few things that can go wrong on the gun and it should be easily fixable.
But before having any custom work done to any new factory gun, I think it's a wise decision to wait and make sure the gun operates properly in the first place.
To me, if a gun is worth buying in the first place, it needs to be 100% functional and fit out of the box - otherwise it's a kit IMO. What two moons and other gunsmiths do is make that 100% into 110%. Now of course with the colt design the gun would have most likely shot very high - in which case that would warrant a gunsmith's services. But to "need" a gunsmith to work on a gun before the gun could be fired...that's what I call a pawn shop special and needs to be priced accordingly, not regular price.
I don't need the smoothness and precision of an expensive gun. All I want is something out of the box that would truely pass a quality control inspection in the factory. I think if this gun would have been selected for a random test, it would of failed. Rather, I hope it would have failed.
These types of issues with blackpowder revovlers were things that happened 10-20 years ago. From what I gather from reading varouis reviews, the companies have cleaned up their products quite a bit. Perhaps I am being too optimistic on my expectations. Over the last few months, I've handled numberous 1860, 1858, and walkers at cabelas. This walker I bought was the only one with any problem. From all the research I read and those display guns handled, my problem seemed to be isolated - and I didn't feel comfortable owning it.
That's not to say that I might buy a revolver from Cabelas next week. Everything seems alright the first few times out but the trigger pull is heavy and point of impact very high. Yeah, I would definatly consider taking it to a gunsmith, especially TM.
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Post by klsm54 on Oct 4, 2007 15:25:26 GMT -5
I didn't mean to imply that you were questioning twomoons work. On the contrary, I was simply questioning your reasoning...  ;D ;D The gun you got from Dixie was, as you put it, a pawn shop special, at least pricewise. Had you sent it off to twomoons for a tune-up you would have most likely ended up with far less than a $400.00 Cimmaron, or what you'll pay at Cabela's. As far as warranty, if it needed an action part, and two moons had to buy it, you would probably still have been shooting your gun sooner, and cheaper. I lost count many years ago of how many guns I've owned, both new and used. I have yet to send one back to the manufacturer. That's not to say they have all been perfect. But the problems were either something the factory wasn't going to fix, not as accurate as I like or heavy trigger pull, or the problems were a simple fix for my local gunsmith, cheaper, easier and quicker than the hassle of returning it. But, I do tend to forget that it is YOU, Red, that we are talking about... You being the ultimate "Murphy" of all gun buyers.... ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by twomoons on Oct 4, 2007 17:07:40 GMT -5
Red
There is nothing wrong with sending back something you are dissatified with. I just question if any of the cheaper factory cap and balls will meet your expectations. I have routinly emptied metal shavings from factory guns and when my shop was open I always stripped and cleaned ANY new gun before it went on the rack. That is why I got customers that Wal Mart didnt, Permium service. I remember one NEW Marlin rifle that had 1/2 a teaspoon of metal filings in the action. Don't blame Dixie for this as they never even open the boxes they sell, they just ship what comes in and they have usually been real good at fixing problems. The downside is the 2-3 week wait to get the fix in and during that time they ship the gun to some close by gunsmith who does what needs to be done and ships the gun back. If I were a shopper who didn't want to have any work done on a gun I would go where they had a rack full and try them till I found one I liked, but be prepared to pay more for the product. Cabella's ect are a primo shopping spot for that kind of thing.
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Post by Purebred Redneck on Oct 4, 2007 18:50:25 GMT -5
Yeah, I know it's not Dixie's fault. I'm not even upset with the service so much as I was frustrated with the wording of it over the phone. Lesson learned, do not special order from the mail...and I knew that when I did it. I totally agree with you when you say get one from Cabelas which has a half dozen or so in stock. You're bound to find one When I buy a gun, I always tell the associate to bring two out. When I bought my marlin 917 last spring I told the Cabelas guy to do that and he said he could only bring one. Ok, I'll play along with that...but I can tell you there's definatly going to be something wrong with the first one ;D You want to make two trips, go ahead  |
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Post by Jack on Oct 4, 2007 22:44:38 GMT -5
"YOU KNOW WHAT !!!"
Well, I know something.... and that is, if you buy a cheap gun ( or computer, or saw, or car, or whatever), you get a cheap gun.
Many years ago I worked for a company that imported a product (not name brand) from Japan with an incredibly cheap price. The product was a pair of binoculars. Now, for about 4 times the money, you could buy a suspiciously similar looking product with identical specs from a major optical company. Hmmmm....
I got a chance to ask the importing agent about that.... turns out the cheap product came off the same assembly line as the more expensive product. The difference? In a case (50 units) of the cheap product, you'd find maybe 1 or 2 that would come close to passing the inspection the optical company demanded.
For the cheap product, if it didn't fall apart when you picked up the binoculars, it was good- they'd pack it and ship it.
The moral of the story? You want cheap? That's what you get- cheap.
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Post by Purebred Redneck on Oct 5, 2007 10:53:27 GMT -5
Well the regular price of the walker is about the same price as a Ruger Blackhawk.
150-200 is a reasonable price for a gun as well. Few people (well maybe me) would call the Ruger 10/22 junk; along with practically all of the marlin and savage rimfire line.
Marlin 336 is under $400. Its the best lever action rifle ever made.
All of these guns do what owners ask of them. A blackpowder revolver should be no different - it has less parts and less complex parts than other guns.
It's not about the price, it's about the demand from the public. People wanted cheap centerfires --- and mossburg, savage, howa, remington, etc all came out with a dirt cheap model that functions fine. Taurus revolvers are dirt cheap and they are just as good (arguably) as S&W. No one has to take these guns to the gunsmith before they are able to shoot the gun because owners won't do that. What's different from cap and ball???
If owners are ok with taking guns to a gunsmith from the get-go, cap and ball makers have no reason to improve quality. Other companies have no problems giving us quality right from the factory at the same prices. The reason cap and ball makers don't do it is because they don't need to because people aren't demanding it yet. If a customer gets a bad revolver, they are likely to put it in the back of the closet never to see it again than they are to fix it.
I find it very hard to believe that Uburti and Pietta (if in fact most every gun has a lot of slop) can't produce better quality for similar prices and still make a profit. These guns are becoming increasingly popular and money can be made in this industry by both pietta and bennelli.
Unfortunatly, it's like a monopoly.
But as far as price...I don't think that's the issue at all !!!
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Post by klsm54 on Oct 5, 2007 14:56:36 GMT -5
I don't know, Red... If I was to buy a Stevens Bolt action rifle, the barest bones of the Savage 110, I would have to make some changes before it suited me. Sure it might go "bang", but I couldn't live with the trigger, might have to bed it too. Our old buddy Cal Sibley was taking all his new rifles to the gunsmith for a tune-up before he shot them. But, if I paid a grand for a new Sako, I'd expect it to be ready to go, out of the box. Of course I would still take the stock off, disassemble the bolt and thoroughly clean it just to make sure everthing was up to snuff. I just don't expect the same amount of "readiness" from any product in the "cheaper spread" category as I do from products in the mid to upper price range. "Functioning" and "performing to my satisfaction" can often be two completely different things. |
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Post by Purebred Redneck on Oct 5, 2007 15:15:57 GMT -5
Scott, I actually think we're in agreement Ok, so you have a Stevens rifle brand new from the factory. Sure, to you it needs some work. I however have the same rifle (and I actually do) and find that it is perfect for my needs. Both rifles function at 100% ---- it's exactly as advertized ---- plain but certainly nothing "wrong" with it. You may want to do improvements to it, but they are not nessisary. Now what if you got your stevens home brand new except it won't cycle rounds (perhaps like Jim's ruger...savage wouldn't do that). Will you change the stock, bed the action, have the trigger reworked on, etc before addressing the malfunction Certainly not...your warranty is now voided and you still have a broken gun that's never been shot. You can have your gunsmith look at it, but if he can't fix it...the warrenty is still voided and you still have a piece of junk. I don't mind perfecting a gun with extras, but the thing has to work properly in the first place. I personally think it's foolish...let me reword that...it's very risky to have work done to a gun before firing it to see if there is a problem. |
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Post by klsm54 on Oct 5, 2007 16:39:25 GMT -5
If I had your track record with guns... I would probably not even clean a gun until I fully test fired it. But in your case, for whatever unknown reason, there is a more than 50% chance that the gun will be a "turd"... ;D ;D The rest of us seem to have gotten our gun "tickets" punched on much luckier days... .... and as such I never even consider it a risk to start tinkering before I fire a new gun. |
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We are all SOOOOooooo looking forward to sharing the experience with you..... ;D ;D ;D
Then of course when you find a good gunsmith, just like anybody who does good work for you, you need to treat him right. If he is doing good work, don't moan about what he charges. Might do you good, when he charges you $14.95 for some little job, that you tell him to keep the change from a twenty. And listen to him, don't go in his shop spouting stupid crap that some joker at the gravel pit told you about how to fix a gun, although that makes for a lot of laughs when you leave..... ;D Nobody likes to be told how to do his job by an outsider... 
;D ;D
