laws against scopes are against the law ???

[Purebred Redneck]

From the Dec 06 Peterson's Hunting

The North American Muzzleloading Hunting Associatin has filed a discrimination complaint to the Dept. of Interior (who accepted the complaint and will investigage) that to outlaw scopes on inlines is discriminating against people with poor vision.

Come on, what kind of crap is this
This is just trying to get everyone to use top of the line equiptment during primative seasons

[klsm54]

If that is the case, then why not just make those with poor vision acquire a permit?

I, being disabled, would hate to see people with any handicap be discriminated against, especially if it prevents them from enjoying the outdoors. But if you are truly handicapped by poor vision, that can't be corrected with glasses or contacts ( that stipulation would get rid of 3/4 of those who THINK they should be allowed scopes ), getting the proper medical documentation to recieve a permit should be worth your time.

I see no reason to repeal the law for the small percentage that are truly unable to use iron sights. Better to leave the law in place and make some sort of exemption.... JMHO

[jimiowa]

That hardly surprizes me! It is a common ruse to shroud your own adgenda with the cloak of Political Correctness.
Being blind in one eye, and totally blind w/o corrective lens, I resent Butt-Holes using a Physical Challenge as a political marketing ploy.
The truth is, that an inline has no advantage over a traditional sidelock. Without the use of optics to extend the effective range.
So primitive laws in some states are putting a limit on the market for in-line rifles!
I personally have no objection to the use of optics if one so desires. In fact they would be period correct for mid 19th century.
But tell it like it is, Don't hide it in Bull Crap By using some peoples physical challenges to further your marketing plan.

[Purebred Redneck]

jimiowa said:

In fact they would be period correct for mid 19th century.

I've got to quote this
Period correct? Ok, so they did make scopes for them.
But what percentage of guns saw their use???
Perhaps .05 percent --- one in 200 guns. And I think that's a VERY generous percentage. I suspect (excluding the military) a scoped gun being found by civilians was more like one in one thousand.

Now, I wouldn't have a problem with a scoped gun on a hawkin / crocket style gun so long as the scope itself was a replica of a "period correct" brass teloscopic scope.

[jabba]

Paraphrasing...

"Anyone that takes ONE step past where I have drawn the ethical line is a serious butt hole!! Let's make a law AGAINST them!!"

Jabba

[Bill]

I was watching TV sunday morning and this debate must be getting kind of hot and heavy in some places.
Someone had wrote into the show and commented on how it should be illigal to use scopes on ML rifles. The narator of the shows comment was this.
"As long as its legal and ethical to use a scope on a ML rifle he intends to use them" "After all this is the US and the US is a free country where we are allowed to do as we wish as long as its legal and ethical"

What he told me was he didn't care what the traditional people thought he was intending to use a rifle scope on his inline. Thats fine by me but what is his intentions if they make it illigal to use. I was kind of part time friends with the guy that invented the Savage 110 ML and he was bragging how he had been deer hunting with his 110 ML in north central Nebraska with a game warden and he had been using a 3x9 scope on the gun. My comment to him was it had to be an out and out lie as its illigal to use a scope on a Savage 110 ML durring ML season in the state of Nebraska. If he did this the Game warden should be fired for letting him as it states you can use a scope as long as it has no more than 1X magnafacation. This solves the problem of people that cannot see their sights anymore. Perfectly fine by me but using a 3X9 scope is illigal as hell. He also was bragging on how far he shot his deer and that no traditional ML could do that. I asked how far that was and he said 150 yards. ;D I'm still laughing at that one. Put it this way, I really pissed him off by the time we were done and he no longer called me friend.

[deputydon]

It goes back to if "they" want scopes and ALL the modern sh*t then; HUNT DURING THE SEASON THAT ALLOWS IT!!!!!

[jabba]

I do. It's allowed here in Indiana. I did not lobby for it. I did not oppose it. It's been this way since I STARTED hunting.

They keep trying to get us to kill more and more deer here. They have removed the state limit on does this year, and we are limited by county quotas only now. Counties allow between 0 and 8 does in EACH county. My county allows 8. I hunt in 5 counties... and am allowed 21 does total, plus one buck, two archery does, and a ML license doe. If they make hunting time MORE restrictive, they will harvest fewer deer. That is NOT what they are wanting. They are actually considering allowing some modern rifles in Indiana for deer for the first time in my lifetime.

I still maintain that you purists really only want the woods to yourself for some period of time. We all WANT that. I have that for the most part. I have to drive to find it... but being a Libertarian, I am not willing to take something away from another hunter to make my hunt better.

Jabba

[klsm54]

bill said:

............"As long as its legal and ethical to use a scope on a ML rifle he intends to use them" "After all this is the US and the US is a free country where we are allowed to do as we wish as long as its legal and ethical"
.............

"Legal" is basically a black and white term. But "Ethical" leaves room for debate. This "free country" bullshit is getting old in my eyes. Yes, this is a free country but people need to have a simple respect for others and lose the "as long as it's legal" attitude...

I suppose you wouldn't want to tell us what show it was, or who the dickhead narrator was? ... I understand if your employer is a sponsor. Wouldn't be a wise career move to bash your employers show.... ....but, if it had a competitor as a sponsor... ;D ;D

[bounce]

Why am I not suprised that the industy now wants to put scopes on all the guns they sold when the guns were not leagle for deer hunting in a primitive seasion?? Gosh you would think I would be? must be that I'm still pissed at their ethics in the 1st place. Yes I'm pretty sick of the Me Generation & the politcal corect. But please everyone go out and Vote today!! I have. and I'm shure some of you may want to nutalize my vote....smiles

[Purebred Redneck]

The scope and inline system is not an ethical question in terms of the actually hunting and killing of an animal...considering what went on in the centerfire season.

This is business ethics of the conservation dept and of the manufacturing industry.
It's not about the number of deer killed for conservation, it's about the number of tags sold.
So the states are taking away the traditional season they intentionally set up to provide people with a relaxed deer hunting atmosphere at the same time giving the deer a break. Comeon, 3 weeks of centerfires is enough - 5 weeks would be a disaster.

But if you can do something "seemingly" good like control deer numbers, giving more people more time to hunt, etc -- the state is looked at as good.
Hunters don't realize that the state only did so to sell more tags; in effect selling out hunters at the backing of big business.

[jabba]

So... if the goal is to conrol the herd, how do you do it? Especially with declining numbers of hunters? I know... you don;t believe that the goal is to keep the herd heathy and managable, but assume for a minute that it is. How do you propose to get hunters out and to KILL the number of deer they want them to? Me I will kill 3-6 in any given year. Regardless of what they do with increased limits.

Fella's, you are now DNR for a day. Fix the deer management problem.

Jabba

[klsm54]

jabba said:

.....................

Fella's, you are now DNR for a day. Fix the deer management problem.

Jabba

ROFLMAO .... ;D ;D ;D

That's a good one Jabba. This thread could break records for most posts, if anybody gets serious about the topic. There is a site called HuntingPA.com that has had thousands of posts concerning deer management in Pennsylvania, and very few agree with each other.

Personally, I don't envy the Fish & Game departments, they really have a tough job, at least in the eastern states. Our deer densities are high in many areas, and we have many different problems concerning land that is hunted on and posted against hunting. Leases have become popular and many groups don't allow doe hunting on their property. Then there are thousands of acres of posted ground that border property were hunting is allowed. These posted areas become huge deer sanctuaries soon after the shooting starts.

Then of course there is the problem of meddling politicians, who know zilch about hunting, let alone game management. Most of these politicians, at least here in PA, are responding to a group of vocal constituents that usually despise our game commission. And not to overlooked are some very influential lobbying groups led by Insurance companies and the timber industry, both who would prefer to see all deer eradicated. Then is the farm lobbying group, and an increasing lobbying effort by the hunting equipment industry.

It's not as complicated for a ranch owner, in say Texas, who can manage a couple hundred thousand acres to a plan that follows QDM guidelines with little interference by anybody but mother nature. Few game departments have that luxury...

[deputydon]

jabba said:

So... if the goal is to conrol the herd, how do you do it? Especially with declining numbers of hunters?

Fella's, you are now DNR for a day. Fix the deer management problem.

Jabba

#1.....drop the price of tags oh that hurt
#2 go to earn-a-buck tags (for every doe tagged you get a buck tag) and allow up to 4 buck tags to be earned a year. #3 leave seasons alone if people want to use modern "stuff" hunt modern seasons if MLing hunt that season Archery same thing I firmly believe in our state if the #'s of deer tags are available during rifle season and only PRIMATIVE WEAPONS W/ IRON SIGHTS are allowed as intended during MLing season the deer herds will still be controlled. Anything the matter w/ my answer other than in-liners would have to be used during modern season?

[dakota]

Bounce, if it were not for different states, I believe your ballot would look a lot like mine.