powder measure for BP

[dakota]

In the 60's I bought a B&M powder measure. I eventually sold it to a black powder shooter, I told him I thought it was worn out, but he wanted it badly.

Well I have been looking for an accurate BP measure for cartridge rifles - BPCR for competition shooting. I have considered weighing each load but think that there probably are alternatives that are accurate. Has anyone on this forum used the Quick Measure for BP rifles?

www.quick-measure.com/bpqm.htm

[dovehunter]

CVA has made essentially the same thing (sans stand) for years. You just buy what ever size funnel/spout you need. The capacity is stamped on the spout. I use mine for all my BP guns. You can get larger funnels/spouts than what I have, but I just throw multiple charges. Like when I want to use 90 gr. of FFg powder in my .50 cal. Morse repro., I just use the 30 gr. spout on the canister and throw 3 charges.

[twomoons]

Buy another B and M they are only $245.00 each now! The Lyman 55 is a good measure and until after WW2 they were rated for b/p, then for some reason they went smokless only. Now Lyman makes the B/P version with aluminum. I have been told that there is more variance in burn from dropping and compression than there is with a 2 grain weight difference so I don't know if weighing would provide any real benefit.

[dakota]

Thanks
I have no experience with long range BP cartridge. I realize that if BP is off by a little won't make much difference on the close range stuff. I think you have shot a lot and I respect your opinon. Still, there is something about pulling up to the line and shooting elbow to elbow that makes me want to eliminate every variable -- especially 500 yards. I guess I didn't look to close at the price on this measure when I posted it -- seems spendy to say the least. But then I am piling a lot of money into the rifle and the mold and different devices.
(I sold my B&M for $45, I think) but then I had quit using it for quite a while as the metal the eroding away under the slide, if I remember right. The powder granules were always getting between the slide and the bottom metal.
I don't think I will be spending the money for this device it is to rich for my blood right now. anyhow.

[twomoons]

Dakota
Before you re invent the wheel get a copy of the "Caplock M/L Rifle and The Schutzen Rifle by Ned Roberts. Once you see where the old timers went you may find some help in blazing your own trail. I don't personally know too many competitive shooters who weigh every powder charge, most use a measure of some kind even if they only load one case. I tried weighed charges in glass tubes and gave it up as I was always spilling the powder or gettng the tubes broken. As far as I can tell the only secret to good loads is doing everything the same with every case every time. I would weigh my bulets, and I would align them in the case and align the case in the rifle, I would trim cases and uniform the flash holes and use only primers and powder from a specific lot, but when my measure dumps to withn 1/10 of a grain every time with FFg I figure I am not going to improve on that too much shaking loads into the pan a grain at a time. Now if I had me a fancy electronic scale with a auto dispenser??? I'd take the money and buy another gun!!! One of the best measures I have is an old Herter's that I picked up on a yard sale for two bucks, so keep your eye open.

[Bill]

Your going to get your best loads with black powder by loading by volume Dakota. Powder measures are fine but you can do it a lot cheaper by buying a brass powder measure with the sliding funnel on top. I use a cookie pan and do this over the cookie pan but if your careful you don't dribble much.
Set the measure to pour the correct load. Pour the powder into the measure till the measure is full and maybe even running over a bit. Slide the funnel part around cutting off the excess. What you have then is a load that isn't compacted and free from any compaction. If you don't change the load it will be as close to being the same for each loading as a person can get. It probably will be the most consistant way of loading BP you will find for extreme spead too for that matter.
Two moons and I use to make powder can loading caps so we could pour from the can into the measure which saved a lot of extra's. We took and drilled a hole the size of a cartridge case. I used a .22-250 cartridge case. We then cut off the base of the case just above the webbing and then silver soldered that to the top of the powder can lid. You could take off the lid of the powder can and screw on this lid and use it to either fill your measure or fill your powder horn. Works awsome. I've had mine for over 20 years and wouldn't be without it.
Once you get your load right all you have to do is repeat and dump. Some guys use drop tubes and I worked on making them one summer and finally got 2 of them made. Bounce has one and I have one. Neither one of them worked all that great so instead of making one buy a decent one as they sell them on the web. When you drop your load down the tube depending on the height it compacts the load so you don't have to crush fit the bullet and the powder don't settle later on. That can cause problems.
That is the cheapest and easiest and best way to load BP shells I know. You never have to weigh a load once your measure is marked and set again.

[bounce]

I find thinking smokeless reloading and Black powderreloading don't mix well, Their just differant with differant propertys as is their performace. A smokeless guy must flush out all he knows and re-learn, then keep the two seprate in thought!! Or better just give up smokeless.

[dakota]

Thanks. I will spend a lot of time reading when I am not out trying my new toys this winter. I got a couple of stocks to finish. loads to develope. bullets to cast.
For black powder I will also be looking at what some of the top finishers at matches have done for their reloading. Thanks again.

[Bill]

Usually the top guys don't share their loads. They may give you a load to use but I bet they don't give you the load their using or the exact recipe anyway. ;D They all have their little secrets.

[deputydon]

volume and doing each load EXACTLY the same is the secert for sure!!!!!!!!!!!

[twomoons]

A lot of the top competitors are just good shots with a LOT of trigger time. I know Doc Carlson and Ron Long and their secret is ... they are good shots. All the reloading skill in the world won't do you as much good as trigger time. Learning to read the wind, to call and spot your shots are the first thing you need to learn. Sure you want the best ammo you can make, that will not only help your groups, but will increase your confidence and that is very important. But when the chips are down and the buffalo is empty the fact that your load will group 1" tighter than your neighbors at 500 yards won't mean squat if you can't shoot better. This fall I got beat twice by my own guns, using my own loads, the other guy was just a better shot that day, then we both got beat by a gun that I wouldn't have bet would hit paper, but the owner (Bounce) knew his gun and how to hold it. Too many folks are searching for what the experts do to get a leg up and what they need is practice. Ron Long said one time that if he put it 'round that his secret ingrediant for lube was buffalo sh## the next year half the guys on the line would swear by Buff goo. Find a load that will put 5 shots (iron sights) regularly into 1 1/2" at 100 yards 4-5 at 300 and then practice and soon you will be on top.

[dakota]

;D ;D ;D
I agree with you on the 'secret' recipes etc.

Same thing happened in pistol silhouette 20+ years ago. "Oh you gotts to try this and you gotta try that."

But if I might be sounding like I am pointing fingers anyone need 30 Herret dies?

[bounce]

I will addmit their was a lot of satifaction in wipeing out a National shooting champ and all my friends with all the best of equipment with a 152 year + rusty rellic. But this woun't happen offten and their are some 15+ guys are shure it woun't happen again next year!! LOL

[dakota]

I know that attitude on the day of the shoot is of prime importance.
With the right mental attitude a person has the leg up on competitors. One way to get that is as you guys have been saying practice and do it a lot - - a lot. It also keeps the guessing down to a minimum. 'How much should I add for wind?' etc. Thanks

[Bill]

Your right on mental attitude Dakota. Thats exactly what it takes. One other thing is consistancey. What I use to do it form a mental picture of where my first shot went off at and use that same mental picture each time. Might not of been in the center of the target but it sure made for small groups. 6 - 8's beat 2 10's and 4 - 5's