The 17 Winchester Super Magnum

[Purebred Redneck]

www.huntingclub.com/blogs/articletype/articleview/articleid/14679/new-raging-rimfire-17-winchester-super-magnum#.UOZGiUnnaP8

My short thoughts

Whoever is interested in a flat shooting rimfire already has one - the 17hmr. So you have to convince them to dump that gun and buy this gun. Wind deflection is a huge problem with the 17hmr. This would seem to alleviate a lot of that problem so that at 10mph you are still somewhat shooting groups and not patterns. It will get you a little more distance but I don't think that's as important. So that's a positive.

Now to be the Debbie Downer
IMO, the world is not big enough for two 17cal rimfires (cough cough hm2). The HMR is very established. Again, you have to convince owners of the HMR to get rid of it. I'm not sure it happens given the uncertainty of the this new round. Can you still get the 223wssm? Yes. Would I buy it? Hell no
And the gun manufacturers are going to have to do a serious retooling. This isn't going to work they same way the 17hmr was created. You're going to need a new rifle.

Now let's look at the bullet. My biggest complaint about the 17hmr is the bullets are just too small to kill anything besides a rabbit or a squirrel. IMO, this new round is STILL too small to kill anything besides a rabbit or a squirrel. And on top of that, it's going to blow a rabbit or squirrel into a million pieces more so than the 17hmr already does and it's going to be louder!

My final opinion
If you have a 17hmr then the 17wsm is a yawner.
If you do not have a 17hmr, then I think it becomes something to think about. However, I would hold out to see how it sells and also for the 22wsm that is sure to come. A 22wsm would intrigue me because the Hornet is essentially gone and it's going to be cheaper to shoot than the 223.

Thoughts???

[Jack]

Hadn't heard a thing about this one.
First of all, the the 17wsm is a bunch more cartridge than the HMR, judging by the article- enough so that the cartridges aren't really comparable. Like a 22 Hornet and a 22-250 aren't comparable.
For a prairie dog hunter that doesn't want to reload, this could be a great cartridge. Given the increased power, it might be the first 17 rimfire with enough punch to be reliable on woodchucks. I would agree with you that it is definitely not a small game hunters cartridge.
I will be interested to see if this cartridge is field reliable- it seems to me that this new cartridge holds a lot more powder than any other modern rimfire. I hope it can handle the pressure.

[Purebred Redneck]

Jan 3, 2013 23:09:50 GMT -5 Jack said:

For a prairie dog hunter that doesn't want to reload, this could be a great cartridge.

That is actually a great point.

I think this is a very niche market. That being said, prairie dog hunters are high volume shooters. Could these high volume shooters single-handly keep this cartridge not only alive but relevant?

[Bill]

I fought off the need for a .17 HMR ever since they came out. Just could not figure out a need for one over a .22 LR as I jumped from the .22 LR right up to the .223 Rem.

BUT

This could fill in between those two very well. It all depends on the cost of ammo or where it ends up at once it gets to selling. This little cartridge could fill in a gap nicely if it gets priced at a point that makes it cheaper to shoot than reload a .223 Rem. With the cost of primers, powder, bullets going up all the time it could work. And of course it more than outperforms the .17 HMR which to me just didn't make it. Heck the almost defunct .17 Mach 2 did almost as well as the .17 HMR did. I think that the problem with the .17 WSM is that it will kill the .17 HMR before too long if the cost of ammo is as or almost as cheap as the .17 HMR due to the added performance level. I had been looking at a .17 Hornet as a possibility but this might just fill the gap a bit cheaper and with no reloading to have to do. EXCEPT that I hate to buy ammo. ;D

[bounce]

When I see the right gun for it one .17wsm is comeing home with me.
No red I have no need to get rid of the .17HMR either I still love it but will love the new one a bit more LOL.

[dovehunter]

I never saw (and still don't) see any point to the .17 HMR and certainly don't see any point to this new thing. I predict it will flop (remember the 5mm Rem) because, as someone else said, a completely new gun will have to be developed for it. I think I can live without this as I have (and will continue) lived with the .17 HMR. I personally have always regarded the .17 - center or rimfire - as solution looking for a problem.

[jmarriott]

For reloaders there is the new 17 hornet, an old wildcat but now sammi approved. The old hornet in 22, about 16 17 caliber wildcats, the 17 HMR the 17 HM2 so there are some real contenders out there already.

The 17 hornet is also pushing 3650 instead of of 3000 and is reloadable but since I do not have one I can't tell about the brass lasting. A 22 hornet is a brass spliting beast. Necking it down might make it more brittle or might make it better, lil gun in the hornet makes it a great round and you could after brass outlay get much more play out of one than any rimfire.

The HMR is to light for coyote at distance to stop them DRT. Under 100 it should do fine. My 22 mag is perfect on fox and close coyotes. The yotes run a bit but the fox are DRT.

My old 17 rem was a copper fouling machine. I think it is much harder to make the rifling on the 17's small hole. Mine was a model 700 classic. I traded it off for my 222 rem and am now very happy instead of frustrated. My groups on the 17 rem opened up after 10 shots badly and copper fouled up the barrel so much you had to soak and brush out with a special rod. To much hassle for me. I will admit it was a DRT cartridge on yotes for sure. One hole in and nothing out all energy expended in the animal. many never took a single step after a hit.

If I had Twomoons local I would have tried to have him lap the barrel and maybe the copper fouling would have gone away. I sold mine with only about 500 rounds in it. Still the fouling was as bad when i sold it as it was to first hundered rounds. 10 shots and down for a day to soak it clean. Now i would not switch out of the 222 rem at all. I could shoot 300 rounds before I get any fouling of the barrel to the point of that 17 rem after 10 shots. If the wood chuck is 200 yards away I should be able to walk until it is in range.

I have a 22 mag and 22 lr. I like the idea of the 17 HM2 but it never took off outside of major tree rat hunters. I think i will skip the 17 WSM but I have always liked the fat short WSM AND WSSM rounds but none of them have seemed to made a lasting impression on the shooting benches.

The 222 rem was the first of the short fat rounds after all. Good enough for the bench resters of the 1960's good enough for me. If i need 400 yards I have to borrow dad's 22-250.

If the 17 WSM takes off invest in a company that makes a good cleaning rod they are going to need one.

[Jack]

A looong time ago, I had a 17-223 wildcat- Shilen barrel on a 700 action. The cartridge was really effective on woodchucks. I ordered bullets from Charlie Sisk- Hornady and other major bullet makers didn't make 17's.
Mine, too, was a horrible fouler. But, I didn't know about any bore solvent besides Hoppie's #9, which is in no way a copper remover. Since I knew of no 17 caliber cleaning rods, I used a length of brazing rod to push patches through the bore, and never used a brush. End result: mucho fouling and blown primers.
I dumped the rifle.
I think part of the problem back then was that making 17 caliber rifled bores was pushing the edge of the available barrel making technology, as well as the shooter (me) having a lot to learn.
Today, there's lots of experience making 17 caliber bores, and much better cleaning equipment commonly available.
A bore that small will foul at high velocities, but, it's easily cleanable now, too.

[bounce]

Do you read & think at the same time as well as chew gum? Just wondering.
3650+ is not 3000
The case is not from a .22 Hornet
They still need a working gun
Conclusion: Not ready for prime time yet as they need a gun that works with it.
If they bring it all together yes I want one.
And when the .17HMR came out you all were saying the same thing then but Owning one said something much differant. I consider the HMR the most important rim fire sence the .22 short Far better than a .22 mag the wsm will be super cool if they put it in a working gun.

[Bill]

Just watch Bounce, I bet Savage turns the Mod 25 into a .17 WSM real fast.

[deputydon]

I might like to try one of these... If the ammo prices aren't sky high.....

[Bill]

Their talking $14 for 50 rounds.

[deputydon]

Well thats cheaper than centerfire rounds....

[jimiowa]

I think this cartridge may have legs with the non reloading pelt hunters out there.
I would probably not go there, since i have the .22 Hornet but many will.
The Fox seem to be on the comeback in this area, they seem to have adapted to the coyote population and found better/safer dening sites.

[jmarriott]

I did shoot one of these in rock Island handgun. One gun 9mm and 22 tcm with just a barrel and bushing change. Was a hoot to shoot and should make a very explosive round plus it is reloadable.

I can;t get a quality 9mm rifle but if you could find one that you could swap out barrrels with it would make a good 22 wildcat. I think Amscor makes the round.

www.ammo-one.com/22TCM.html