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Post by jimh on Apr 18, 2012 22:23:31 GMT -5
well after poking around I see it is not a rimmed carriage. now I find myself wonder where I got that impression from over the years.
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Post by Jack on Apr 18, 2012 22:41:15 GMT -5
The 35 is rimless- headspacing is done on the shoulder. Way back in the day, Rem had a family of cartridges for one of their autoloaders - all rimless: 25 Rem, 30 Rem and 35 Rem. The 25 had ballistics identical to the Winchester 25-35, the 30 to the Win 30-30. The 25 and 30 Rem are long gone. The 35 survived because it was chambered in the Marlin 336. 94's have always been chambered for rimmed cartridges, i.e, 30-30, 25-35, 32 Special, 38-55 and more recently the 7-30 Waters. The 94XTR's came out in the late 70's, and were chambered in 307, 356, and 375 Winchester cartridges. The 307 is a semi rimmed case, with a body identical to the 308 case (you can use 308 dies for a 307, and 358 dies for a 356). I have heard that some of those XTR's will function with rimless 308 cases, but I can't confirm that. 307 and 356 cases and ammo are still available from Winny, as is 375.
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Post by jimh on Apr 19, 2012 7:29:09 GMT -5
Jack i have always thought the 7-30 Waters would make a dandy choice for youths or anyone that did not want to deal with felt recoil. i know it's very much the darling in the Thompson Contenders. it is one of those chamberings that i find puzzling why it didn't take off as well as you would think it would. make a dandy Yote round too.
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Post by Jack on Apr 19, 2012 9:02:12 GMT -5
Jim, I agree with you - the 7-30 Waters is a nice round. I have a theory on lever gun rounds, based on having run a sporting goods dept at a big box store many years ago. We sold lever guns by the pallet load during the run up to hunting season. The profile of the guys we sold the leverguns to is what was interesting. . . The typical customer was a guy who'd never deer hunted, or rarely had, didn't hunt much, and wanted the cheapest rifle. At that time, the Handi rifle was not widely available in deer calibers, and the low cost bolt guns weren't either. A levergun at 199$ was the lowest priced deer rifle, and the bolts and pumps started at 400$. So, what they got was a Marlin 30AS (30-30 only) or a Winchester 94 Ranger (30-30 only). Most of those guys didn't know one caliber from another, but they'd heard of 30-30, and a levergun looked like a deer rifle to them. Look at the history of Winchesters attempts to sell some of the other calibers in the 94 - the 307,356, and 375 were only available in the higher grade XTR 94's, at twice the price of the lowest cost 94's - and all failed. The same for the 7-30 Waters. The 94 XTR's sold for the price of a bolt gun. Marlin was a bit smarter, selling the 336 for 50$ more than their cheapest rifle, but still more than 100$ less than a bolt gun, at that time. In that price range, Marlin could sell rifles to the levergun guys, and in calibers other than 30-30, like the 35 Remington. I've always wondered whether the 307, 356, 375 and the 7-30 Waters would have made it if they'd been available in the low cost rifles. I kind of think so. I believe there would have been enough hunters that found the low price compared to a bolt gun attractive. Anyway, my theory, and worth just what you paid for it.
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Post by jmarriott on Apr 19, 2012 17:18:25 GMT -5
The rimmed rounds work best in lever actions rifles. They also work best in the TC contender.
In theroy with identical barrels in 35 rem and 7-30 waters the waters groups better in a 14 inch pistol barrel. The waters is still shooting the load out of the contender reloading manual and I have never seen a reason to change it up. The Way the ejection works in the rimless contender barrel puts a little bit of pressure on the cartridge so it does not set in there perfect. I had mine honed down so it sets in better. The 336 is known in later years to be a bit out of spec on lenght and you can get light primer strikes. After fireformong they work great. If you see a 35 rem 336 with light primer strikes that is most likely the reason.
One of the things I love about the marlins is you find so many around just like Jack talked about setting in a closet off the kitchen with 1/2 a box of ammo and it has been their since 1977. Hunted last in 1976 with 5 shots to sight in and five in a pocket of a hunting vest.
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Post by jmarriott on Apr 21, 2012 10:52:21 GMT -5
I just got wind of a shooter quality 336 in 375 this morning. I hear it has been thru it's far share of hunting situations with a fall in the story. Not in prestine shape but 300 was the asking price.
If anyone is intrested let me know and I will call the guy, I have not seen it in person but iif this guy say's well hunted it is well hunted. His coon gun looks like it has been used everyday since 1952 and cleaned last in 1993. He does get in some very intresting stuff.
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Post by Jack on Apr 21, 2012 15:57:23 GMT -5
I had a Marlin in 375 Winchester. It was 336, but Marlin labeled them as a model 375. I never got that gun to shoot very well- 3 inch groups at 100 yards was the best I ever got, and those took some work. I saw a good deal on a Winchester 94 in 375 at a good price, and bought it. The 94 has never shot a group over 3 inches, and most are under 2. I sold the Marlin.
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