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Post by sebastian on Jun 7, 2008 7:43:22 GMT -5
Finally, after several days from I bought my bow I get managed to practice with my bow this afternoon. I can say that the bow & combination shoots well/very well. I just grabbed a big zack of used cloth (which is plenty in my workshop) and used it as "target". I found it as the easiest/quickest method for being a practice "target" ;D, but it was a good target, I think. I only use an arrow with field point for the practice since I don't want to ruin the other arrows (only have 12 total). The arrow got in to the zack cloth for about 3 to 5 inches deep btw, while the zack is about 20" thick, 30" wide and 40" long or so...so no worry then to shoot more & more. I only noticed that the vanes were getting "not neat" (some wrinkle there) after one shot through the whisker biscuit but I don't care, it's just one arrow. I adjusted the sight, the biscuit, and the release, and shot once at about 10 yds. It shot vertical, about 3" high but the "windage" seems okay. Make another shot and it show the same. Then I grab the allen wrench set and I re-adjust the sight, and found it shoots even higher...I was wrong with the adjustment! ;D Adjust the sight again, and then get closer to the "bullseye" (only a mark in the center of the zack using a black marker, of about 2" round). Re-adjust again, and again, until it hit right on the center. Then I shot for several times more to build "confidence thing", at this yardage. After this step (after I get more confidence), I tried to shoot at double the distance, at about 20 yds. No adjustment is made, I still aim the same pin (the high/top pin) and the arrow hit about 3" or so low, for twice times...Okay, I could see how much I have to set the second/mid pin (i.e. by looking the impact from the bullseye and determine how far the mid/second pin must be set. Set it, then shoot again. It shot as expected, right on the bullseye. Unfortunately I had to take the arrow back & forth every time. I don't really want to ruin the other arrows since I wouldn't be able to buy it overhere. Anyway, with this method (back & forth) I still can enjoy the practice. And what makes me happy is that I shot pretty consistent wtih the (one )arrow, at about 2" or less at 20 yds. I shot for about 40 or so times and I still always hit the bullseye. My workshop is 23 meters wide (about 25 yds) and unfortunately I could not shoot "longitudinally?" to have 30 yds or more distance. It is now full with furnitures & wood/plywoods so I can only shoot "in the width?" of the building, today. However, I will try to have more longer distance practice and set the third/lowest pin next time. I only suspect that the 3rd pin must be set a bit wide apart than the top(1 st) & the mid (2nd) pin. Wait a minute.....I will measure the gap of the pin It is 0.156" gap, center to center, between the top/1st pin and the mid/2nd pin. Due to the longer yardage/trajectory, from 20 to 30 yds, it might/should be about 1.1 to 1.3 times 0.156" wide apart from the mid/2nd pin. Well, this bow shoots pretty well, I think. But I have to get practice with longer distances and to be more understand with the trajectory etc. I might also practice to shoot the bow at night with spotlight. I might also practice to shoot in different level/angle such as in treestand hunting...well, I am in no hurry at all. ;D I will report you here once I get manage to hunt with the bow...seb.
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Post by Purebred Redneck on Jun 7, 2008 11:01:36 GMT -5
I'm going to break down everything here so I don't forget 3 things 1. I would not depend on that one arrow forever. A whole variety of things could bend the arrow (though carbon is generally tougher than aluminum...still though you might miss the target, pull it out of a target too hard, lay something on the arrow, etc.) So you could end up adjusting your sights assuming something came loose on the bow and it could be a bent arrow. Because groups get tight, I wouldn't shoot more than 2 or 3 arrows at the same target just because you could bust a nock (not really a problem for us here b/c we can replace it...but for you...) 2. I would never hunt with an arrow which I didn't shoot at least a few times first. That arrow could be bent from the factory, the nock weak and cracking, the vanes not glued right. I would shoot a few before going hunting and make sure they all shoot the same. 3. Speaking of vanes --- they will wrinkle so that's completly normal. I would be inspecting the vanes to make sure they are glued on there properly. If they start to lift, put a drop of super glue or something under it and make sure you place the vane down on the same location (the old glue marks). As soon as you see that, fix it. If by chance a vane gets a little hole it in, it should shoot straight still. Furthermore if one of the vanes happens to get ripped completly off, it should shoot the same as well (with only two vanes) You are right - probably about double You just have to be carefull that you don't adjust it too much and you send an arrow off the target (that's when arrows get bent or lost). I'd probably make the adjustment the same as your 1st and 2nd pin and shoot that at 25 and see where you stand. I probably wouldn't shoot it in the shop either. Any variety of things breaking could send the arrow off target and in a shop things could get mighty dangerous Like a rifle, a bow will shoot high from an elevated stand. For example, 15-20 feet high is the normal height here for most hunters. When a deer sized animal (like an antalope you saw) is less than 10 yards away, we might actually aim slightly underneath the animal in order to hit it properly. At 15-20ish yards, we might aim just a little low. By the time you get out past 25 yards, you're typically alright to hold about dead on unless you're way up there. When practicing from an elevation, you may even want to get a harder foam target so you can see the angle of the arrow. With your soft cotton type bag, the arrow kind bounces around --- it never goes in just straight. You should also consider this when shooting multiple arrows though (goes back to what I said in the beginning). In a hard target, the nock is the only thing that shows provided you stand in the same spot. In your target part of the arrow might be sideways making it easier to hit when firing multiple arrows. Just something to think about. FinallyWhen you miss the target and the arrow goes into the grass (hopefully your cut yard) it could be very hard to find. I like bright color vanes and a bright nock so you could possibly see it burried in dirt/grass. Unless it goes straight through the target, it's never just laying on top of the grass. It's almost always in the root system of the grass where you barely see it even once you actually find the thing. Provided you don't have a broadhead, you can carefully walk barefoot back and forth trying to feel for the shaft. It might take an hour and it might be no where near where you thought it went, but hopefully you find the arrow.
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Post by sebastian on Jun 7, 2008 11:40:19 GMT -5
All makes sense & right, Red. Thanks you for the tips/inputs!
I have harder foam and will use it for target, in my workshop. I also found an outdoor range for practicing bow, around 10 miles or so from my house.
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Post by sebastian on Jun 10, 2008 9:11:37 GMT -5
Red, I had about 2 hours practice again today. The (bow) range is outdoor, about 10 miles to the north from my house.
Here what I found... (I did not change the pins setting etc btw, just the same with the last one I set them some days ago). The 1st pin at 10m was dead on. The 2nd pin at 20m was about dead on, too. Now on the 3rd pin...(I set it about 1.2 x wide appart than the 1st & 2nd pin)...but boy, it shot SO LOW in this distance (about 10" low or so) and I almost miss to hit the big foam target in the first shot! --- So you were right with your info before. The pin needed to be set about 2 times appart than the 1st & 2nd pin....It's far from my previous prediction! I used 6 arrows, finally, because one arrow was/would only make me move back & forth so much. There were also some kids practicing with their recurve bows.
What makes me wonder now is...I do not know why exactly, but my arrows shot much (much) bigger groups than what I did several days ago. Many of the groups were about 6 inches or so at 20 m, and probably about 10" or more at 30m. (Yes, you read it right, about SIX inches at twenty meters and about TEN inches or more at 30meters). It was that bad!!! Wind speed was about "moderate", perhaps about 5-10 miles per hour....I am not sure though. However, the groups showed more horizontal than "round"...
Question: is that normal???...or maybe each bow shoots differently???...or maybe just the (bad) driver???
I will try to shoot as consistent as I can next time....I will probably bring some windflags to check the wind/wind changes next time (just like what we do in BR shooting)...I will take video to see if I shoot consistent or not next time...
................... Well, I am glad though that I find several dozens bow shooters in my area! The majority of them use recurve bows, but some of them also have compound bows. It seems that Hoyt & Matthew being the most popular bows overhere. I also find that our province has the best bow shooters in Indonesia. Two of them (women) even ever won bronze medals in Olympic (recurve) & silver medal in international match in Korea sometime ago (compound). They are common to shoot 90 meters, 70 meters, 40 meters and 30 meters...but today they were just practicing at 30m only so I did not able to see how they shoot the longer distances....maybe next time. I am sure I can learn about bow shooting/technique from these champions, locally. They also have "bow shooting club" and teaching kids and people like me to shoot bow. Well, it seems that I would have a new hobby very soon...;D
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Post by Purebred Redneck on Jun 10, 2008 10:55:47 GMT -5
Unless wind gets above 15mph, you aren't going to notice a difference under say 20-25 yards. From that distance, the wind is generally irrelivant unless it's blowing pretty good. For now, I probably wouldn't bother with wind flags.
As far as shooting at 30 yards, you may want to slowly work into it. It could take a beginner a year or so before they should think about shooting at the 30 yard target. It's quite a way out there for most people.
One of the reasons (probably the reason) for larger groups is shooting too much. I think most people can only shoot perhaps 20-30 shots at a time. After that, groups open up. Once groups open up, then flinching starts. At 30 yards, you could easily miss the target.
My recomendation for the next few months 1. Shoot every other day or every third day to keep your arm fresh 2. Shoot until you start feeling and seeing wrong results. When that happens, it's time to quit. You can not correct it 3. Keep the distance at 20 yards and keep shooting until you can put 3 arrows just about touching on most groups. Then back off to 30 yards. Work you way back or else you're going to start losing arrows.
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Post by jimiowa on Jun 10, 2008 14:30:44 GMT -5
Sebastian its good to practice and get good! But be careful you don't get too good. My friend Don Kelso used to shoot a lot of sporting matches back in the early 80's. He really got pissed when he stacked 3(aluminum) arrows one inside the other on the same target( have seen him do it twice). Ruining expensive shafts can be a bummer. ;D
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Post by sebastian on Jun 11, 2008 1:42:20 GMT -5
You're probably right Red...I guess I shot too much yesterday. I shot maybe about 60 times or more yesterday. (while my left elbow still pain/fatique due to the practice I did several days ago). (Well, I will practice "push up" regularly again. I still remember that I could do it for about 40 times properly at a time when I was practicing "karate" long time ago. I tried it again this morning and find that I can only made it about 8 times properly...(sad). I think my arms & body getting weak/un-trained recently. I only play badminton twice a week, just to keep my stamina well & have fun with friends, but no "strengh?" in this sport, just speed & endurance. I have to build strength instead of speed & endurance....especially for bow & positions shooting, especially for my left arm).
Thanks you for your recomendation. I will soon get a "class" from the bow club.
............ Jim, "too good" is always better than "too bad" for me....lol.
I found that it is very expensive overhere to buy/order arrows, bows, assecories, etc... Hoyt or Matthew bows, which is about $500 or so in the USA cost about three times overhere. Arrows (Easton) cost about $230 in US$ per 6....(eek)]
I think I can order more stuffs directly from the States and ask my courier (TNT or DHL) to pick up then forward it to my address. I found that bow/arrow is okay to be imported directly.
My son, Lionel (12 years), asks me to buy a set of bow (lighter/youth)...but I think I will make a homemade one (recurve) for him....at least for this time being.
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Post by jimiowa on Jun 11, 2008 9:35:17 GMT -5
Sebastian: When you get that Recurve made, be sure to post pictures! As much as I know Red's gonna blast me, I still prefer the recurve. I have never found a compound I liked. In Fact just to give you some ideas, Heres a link to my dream bowmakers site. incidently it is in Jim H & Reds home state. I want one of their takedowns. ns1.bowsite.org/acb/Category.cfm?&DID=9&CATID=1
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Post by sebastian on Jun 11, 2008 11:16:39 GMT -5
Jim, thanks you for the link. But to make quality bows like "that" is beyond of my capability! I will try, anyway... If I can find some planks of good grained woods, I might be able to make a bow or two similar to that bows...I am not so sure though?...For sure is, it would take many MANY hours to make a bow like that (lots of job)...besides I still don't know much about bow specs/requirements.
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Post by jimiowa on Jun 11, 2008 21:31:25 GMT -5
Sebastian: From what I've seen if you set your mind to build a Quality Bow it would not be beyond your ability! And would incorporate some interesting inovations! I will grant you those ol'boys have been at it for 30 yrs and learned all the do's & Don'ts. I thought it might give you ideas you could use?
I have no idea how big or how strong your son is. But would reccomend that you do not go overboard with draw weight. It would be far better for him to shoot a light bow with proper form, than a heavier bow he can't handle well and develop poor shooting form. For instance at 140lbs and pretty strong for my size(when I did physical labor) I shot a 45 lb recurve and shot it well. Never thought I was under armed at all, at that. Though I knew some who shot up to 70 lb recurves. In any event I would like to hear how the project goes for you.
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Post by sebastian on Jun 11, 2008 23:02:35 GMT -5
My son weighs about 64 kgs (about 140 lbs) and 167 cm high (about 5' and 6"). He is considerably big and strong for his age (within our local standard overhere). He is still not strong enough to draw the compound bow, btw. Yesterday I asked him to draw my arms, just to feel how much force he can draw etc (pretend my arms as a bow). It seems that he can draw about 30 lbs to 40 lbs max....so I guess about 30 lbs (or a bit less) should be about right for him, for a recurve. And about 25" draw length.
I plan to make two bows, in different draw weight (about 25 lbs and 30 lbs) and in different length (maybe 58" and 60"), so he can choose which one better for him. My daughter Michelle (11) can also use one too, by this.
Or maybe three.... (in 40-50 lbs and 62"-64" long) ;D. But later on this one.
Should be more cheaper to buy (from the States) rather than to make myself, but this is an interesting "project", too!
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Post by Purebred Redneck on Sept 4, 2008 15:44:27 GMT -5
BUMP
How's things comming along?
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Post by sebastian on Sept 15, 2008 14:24:24 GMT -5
Sorry that I just read your post now, Red.
I still did not make the bow, yet. Still very busy with my work loads overhere. But I will make it when I have time.
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Post by jimh on Sept 16, 2008 8:07:06 GMT -5
sebastian, i don't know what you're feeding your kid but my 12 yr old would apreciate you sending some of it over here for him! poor kid is destined to be a horse jockey. his older brother has already pass me up (not hard to do by the way) and the youngest will also pass me up. it will be interesting to see how your bow turns out when you do make it. keep us informed and also let us know how your bow hunting goes this year. it can be a bit trying at times. also i assume you will not be bow hunting at night like you do rifle hunting correct ?
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Post by sebastian on Sept 16, 2008 13:17:26 GMT -5
Hi Jim, thanks for the kind words. I do really wish to have more hands and stronger back bones, and more time, at this moment. lol.
Actually, I have tried to hunt with the bow, some time ago, for twice. But no luck. My guide did not know how to prepare the tree stand etc for bow shooting (not blaming him, though!). The pigs were moving around, or too far to shoot. And too much branches in front of me. I did not want to miss in my first bow hunting experience. But I will try next time.
Just one thing.... I find it was hard to use the bow for hunting at night. Both in treestand, or by "jeep method". Especially when I also bring my rifle. I tend to choose/grab the rifle than the bow, lol.
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