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Post by dovehunter on Mar 31, 2008 9:26:46 GMT -5
As you may know, .225 Winchester brass is not easily acquired these days so I have been carefully hoarding my original stock now for probably 30 years. I have been noticing a lot of case neck separations lately (at worse) and longitudinal splits in the neck (at best) on a lot of my cases. I figured maybe I needed to anneal my cases. However, when I took my gun - a Savage Model 340 bolt action - to the gunsmith to get the stuck case neck extracted he looked over my fired empties. He commented that all the case necks were black, even the ones that hadn't spit in some fashion (about half a box). He said he is going to check out the chamber after extracting the case neck. After that I went back and looked at some of my other cases and virtually all of them were blackened around the neck. Is it possible that my rifle may have a chamber in which the neck area is to large in diameter? I would think that could explain the blackened case necks and the tendency for the case necks to separate and/or split. I have had and shot the gun (infrequently) now for about 30 years and never had any problems. Maybe it has been a case of ignorance is bliss. What do you think?
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Post by klsm54 on Mar 31, 2008 10:01:23 GMT -5
I think your brass could be helped by annealing. I doubt there is anything wrong with the chamber. Just a little loose in the neck, as most factory necks are. Factory chambers have to be on the large side, in the neck, to accomodate thicker brass without dangerous pressures.
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Post by Jack on Mar 31, 2008 10:34:10 GMT -5
I think Klsm has it right. Factory chambers are often cut on the generous side.
Old cases often exhibit neck cracks, and will benefit from annealing. I think I'd anneal all of them, if I were you, Dovehunter.
I helped a friend rehab an old Savage 99 his father had, that was in 303 Savage. He had ammo that dated from before WW2. Some necks had cracked just from age, sitting in the box. If you fired the ammo, about half the necks split. I pulled all the bullets and annealed all the case necks- no more splits.
As far as the necks being blackened, that can be from a generous chamber, or a low pressure load, and by itself doesn't mean there's a problem. Lots of cases that get reloaded a few times have blackened necks.
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Post by twomoons on Mar 31, 2008 10:51:12 GMT -5
As the brass work hardens it does not seal as well and the harder it is the less the seal. Annealing will help. You might check Graf and Son's as they had 225 brass a while back.
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Post by dovehunter on Mar 31, 2008 14:11:13 GMT -5
Okay, you guys have convinced me. That's pretty much what I had thought anyway, at least initially. So now how is the best way to go about annealing the cases? I've never done them before. I seem to recollect having read that you essentially just set them up in a pan of water, heat the necks with a propane torch, and them tip them over at some point. If that's the right way to do it, could one of you maybe elaborate a little? Obviously I do not want to ruin these terribly hard to find cases. Thanks for all the help.
2M: Do you have a web address for Graf & Son's?
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Post by klsm54 on Mar 31, 2008 14:57:20 GMT -5
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Post by dovehunter on Apr 1, 2008 9:07:20 GMT -5
klsm54:
Wow, you gave me the whole nine yards! Thanks! To insure that I didn't miss anything, I pasted all the text into a WORD docment file that I can lay on my workbench when I get started.
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Post by Jack on Apr 1, 2008 11:25:03 GMT -5
Dovehunter, good luck!
I think the key thing is, whichever method you decide to use, is do your annealing in a darkened room. You want the necks to just barely change color, and you'll see that much more easily in darkened conditions.
If you try to anneal in a bright room, or in daylight, you'll be heating the case more than you need to.
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Post by dovehunter on Apr 1, 2008 14:10:02 GMT -5
The darkened room is an excellent point made by both you and Bill. I would never have thought of that but it makes perfectly good sense. I am largely color blind anyway and would have a hard time seeing the brass turning red if there was a lot of peripheral light.
I think I am going to hedge my bets though by checking into buying some new brass from the source's mentioned in klsm54's post. I never figured on having such a hard time getting .225 Win. brass. When my wife bought that gun for me, probably 30 years ago, the .225 Win. was being chambered in a fair number of rifles - not to the extent of the .22-250, mind you - but it was not the oddity it is today. It's kind of a shame really, because my Savage is pretty accurate - consistently shooting around 1/2 to 3/4" groups at 100 yds. and all my old loading manuals praise its accuracy. I guess it just never had that something that makes a cartridge popular. That's why I continue to be skeptical of all these new offerings.
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Post by Jack on Apr 1, 2008 19:01:37 GMT -5
Nothing wrong with the cartridge, Dovehunter.
It just came out at the time everyone was complaining about the post 64 Model 70, and then Remington introduced the 22-250 as a factory round. That was a double whammy the 225 couldn't overcome.
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sst
Member
Posts: 87
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Post by sst on Apr 2, 2008 14:29:27 GMT -5
dovehunter,
In a pinch, 225 brass can be made from 30-30 cases. You just need to turn the rim down about .030 until it fits the bolt face, neck down to .224, and fireform.
Sam
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Post by klsm54 on Apr 2, 2008 15:44:47 GMT -5
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Post by dovehunter on Apr 7, 2008 9:10:59 GMT -5
A postscript:
I was looking over my .225 Winchester empties yesterday, checking to see which ones had neck splits (or the start of them). No point in attempting to anneal cases necks that had already started to split. I found a goodly number - about 1 out of 3 in one box. In the process I found two boxes of brand new, never before fired empties. They would be probably 30 years old but, being new cases, I shouldn't think that they too would need annealing. What do you think?
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Post by Jack on Apr 7, 2008 12:08:20 GMT -5
Anneal 'em. Cases can crack from age alone.
See my earlier post about never fired 303 Savage cases- some of those cracked just from age.
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Post by klsm54 on Apr 7, 2008 13:24:11 GMT -5
I came across a box of once fired 7x57 brass in my garage a few years back, probably 15 years since I shot them one time in load developement. When I sized them I lost 4 or 5 to neck splits and they all seemed very hard. I always wondered if they could harden over time, as these were not work hardened.
I'm with Jack, I'd anneal them.
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